BT call round up

pool-hustler

I am currently in dispute with BT that they have been charging me a full minute when my kids used to either ring my mobile to let me know they got home, or if it got through, the 2/3 second call was charged for one minute.
Despit their terms and conditions, is this a case I can win. It's all cut off now, Broadband the lot but I was wondering how I was paying around £50 in call charges without using the phone at all. I only used it for 0845 numbers.

I am assured that they haven't charged me for my phone just ringing but what about the 35p charges for 2/3 second calls????

ACDeag

pool-hustler wrote: »

I am currently in dispute with BT that they have been charging me a full minute when my kids used to either ring my mobile to let me know they got home, or if it got through, the 2/3 second call was charged for one minute.
Despit their terms and conditions, is this a case I can win. It's all cut off now, Broadband the lot but I was wondering how I was paying around £50 in call charges without using the phone at all. I only used it for 0845 numbers.

I am assured that they haven't charged me for my phone just ringing but what about the 35p charges for 2/3 second calls????

They have been rounding up a for a few years now, it is detailed in their tariff. I would not hold out a lot of hope in your dispute, most other providers do the same now.

pool-hustler

detailed in the teariff or not. I was only aware of it recently. OK, they will say ignorance is no defence. However would a judge deem it fair?

DonnyDave

Yep. Today's wonderful telecoms services frequently charge to the next whole minute despite the fact that the hi-tech billing allows for per second billing.

Another rip-off allowed by the regulator. Imagine if your local butcher (assuming he is still in business) rounds up to the nearest 1kg. Trading standards would be round and would see that he stops.

But telecommunications companies are allowed to increase call charges covertly by billing to the next whole minute. Oh, and the connection charge is also spreading, which means that when it says in the literature that you pay x pence per minute, the actual cost of the call will be far more than this.

Now with VAT inclusive billing (BT says this is what "customers" want), the VAT is added on meaning more rounding in the calculations to push up the price even further.

BT minimum charge of 5 pence (RIP).

Information on call rounding and the call set-up fee is on the BT Price List here:
http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/public/current/Gen_Notes_boo/0001_d0e219.htm#0001-d0e219

Mark_In_Hampshire

We don't have a landline, so I'm not really aware of these charges, but isn't it getting to the stage where it would be cheaper to have and use a mobile instead?

billsavings

Mark_In_Hampshire wrote: »

We don't have a landline, so I'm not really aware of these charges, but isn't it getting to the stage where it would be cheaper to have and use a mobile instead?

If you dont need a landline for broadband Orange offer a £15 sim only deal. 30 day contract. I believe you get 300 mobile minutes,100 texts, and unlimited geographical landline calls subject to fair use. You could use this in conjunction with http://www.18185.co.uk/mobilerates.php via geographical access number for cheaper 0845/0870 calls if you have no alternative numbers.

A PAYG alternative www.giffgaff.com used in conjunction with http://www.18185.co.uk/mobilerates.php via freephone number.

pool-hustler

So i have no leg to stand on?

Who do I complain to OTELO said they deal with service complaints etc and not billing.

In the mean time they have cut me off and are still charging for line rental and broadband despite me being cut off???

DonnyDave

pool-hustler wrote: »

So i have no leg to stand on?

Who do I complain to OTELO said they deal with service complaints etc and not billing.

In the mean time they have cut me off and are still charging for line rental and broadband despite me being cut off???

Wouldn't have thought there's anything you can do as they will say they advised you of call charges and charging policy (whole minute billing) and call set-up fees.

As you are not paying for the service, they have a right to suspend it. My advice is to settle up and learn from the experience. Many of the providers are the same with this whole minute billing and call set-up fees.


In your original posting, you said "or if it got through, the 2/3 second call was charged for one minute". Not sure how much you can say in 2 or 3 seconds. If this is because you have voicemail switched on and they didn't want to leave a message, then may I suggest you turn it off? There is a thread running on here about switching off your voicemail because it costs callers, even if they don't leave a message. This applies equally to landline voicemail and mobile voicemail services.


In the good old days, the minimum charge with BT was 5 pence, so the 2 second call would have cost that. Then it went to 5.5 pence and following that they brought in the "call set-up" fee and whole minute billing, which means that the minimum charge is now the call set-up fee plus one whole minute.


The best way to make mobile calls from a landline will be advised by the MSE CallChecker. In future, they might like to send you a text message instead.

I call mobiles from my landline using 18185 Monday to Friday which costs 5 pence connection plus 6 pence per minute, charged in whole minute increments. A call lasting 59 seconds or less is thus 11 pence. On Saturdays and Sundays, 18185 charges 7 pence per minute (more than in the week!) so use either Call18866 or 1899 which are sister services of 18185.

Or you may find a cheaper way of calling your mobile from a mobile phone rather than the landline.

Mark_In_Hampshire

I don't think this is a case you'll win.

Firstly just because a supplier can charge to the second doesn't actually mean that they have to; services differ from goods though DonnyDave makes a good point.

While I agree with you that charging for one minute for a one second call is a scurrilous activity that ought to be banned by the regulator, lets just remember for one moment that the regulator is practically useless.

As far as ringing the phone several times as a kind of coded message - personally I can well see why suppliers would want to charge for that - this came up in a Virgin Media thread the other day. You are after all using their network to communicate a message, which carries a cost to the supplier, even though you didn't actually speak. The same advances in technology with regard to billing enable this "loophole" to be closed.

The supplier is required to inform you in advance of any changes to their terms and conditions which affect you and in particular those which disadvantage you. This gives you the opportunity to reject those term changes and give the supplier the opportunity to either continue on the previously agreed terms, or cancel the contract.

Not having had a landline for 2 years I have no idea when this change happened or whether you were informed. Generally BT does communicate changes to its' terms and conditions, usually in tiny type at the back of a leaflet which people, to their own disadvantage, don't always read. But in such instances that change was communicated, nonetheless.

Therefore, if you are receiving a service based on terms which have been communicated, ultimately it is your responsibility - if you are operating on an assumption - to verify that your assumption is correct.

pool-hustler

i'll keep fighting it nonetheless and go through the usual process blah blah.
Who is the ombudsmen? is it OFCOM. I was told OTELO but they are pretty useless.

Mark_In_Hampshire

I don't think you'll get anywhere with the regulator. What will most likely happen is that eventually the account will be passed to a debt collection agency and a stream of letters will arrive which you could, if you were so inclined, just pop in the bin.

You could invite them to sue you for the amount, though it's unlikely that would happen.

You could sue BT for your loss of service/on the basis that the billing is incorrect and you have been overcharged, but I think your chance of winning is close to zero. You would only have a case if the change happened while you were in contract and it was not communicated to you, and you noticed it immediately and took action.

Assuming you don't owe a huge amount it will just be written off eventually. However it may well result in a default being registered against you with credit reference agencies, which may or may not affect your ability to receive credit in the future or sign up for things like landline or mobile phone contracts.

I understand your frustration and I'm not BT's biggest fan But I don't think this is one you should pursue.