plusnet billing error

tomwise

Warning to plusnet customers:
Plusnet charged me twice for December use of tel line:once in Dec and again in Jan bill.
A 'system error' they said and that they would refund within 14 days
I cannot be the only one affected. Check your bill.
Do you think a £5 'compensation' for the time & trouble their error has caused me is suficient?
Otherwise plusnet seems OK.

FrankTheRed

I confirm, identical mistake with me, identical dates, an the same for another customer (butler65). See the user forums.

Unfortunately I cannot post links here (the systems forbids it). To find the relevant forums google "Plusnet billing query" (most relevant is probably page 2) and "Plusnet billing system - a poll" (page 2 as well). If a moderator or superuser is reading this, please replace this paragraph with the addresses of the two forums

Mistakes are not unusual as you can see from the forums. I think service providers should be regulated and authorities should keep a watch on them. Plusnet is definitely not trustworthy and also I find them not very polite.

nadger

I think saying they aren't trustworthy is a bit OTT as this implies a deliberate act.

Personally I've not had a situation where I've been overcharged, in over 30 months with Plusnet.

I'm not saying that there haven't been some accounting problems recently and the Usergroup have highlighted these to Plusnet.

I'd imagine that Plusnet would actually lose, rather than gain, money from double billing due to the time involved in resolving such issues.

Laz123

I moved from them years ago. Whenever I asked for a MAC code they would always provide my transfer a few days after I'd paid a month's payment. That meant I was paying them for nothing for almost a month.

biscit

tomwise wrote: »

Do you think a £5 'compensation' for the time & trouble their error has caused me is suficient?

Yes, seems reasonable.

Plusnet have been OK for me, but my landline is still BT.

FrankTheRed

A £5 refund? This seems ridiculous. A refund must be (a) quite higher (minimum 3-4 times) the amount claimed back so as to be a deterrent; (b) proportionate to the time spent by the customer dealing with the problem; (c) symmetrical to the extra charges to late paying customers (which are £7.5 + £10); and (d) increased in case the time for refunds is too slow and in any case larger than the minimum notice of direct debit sent to cstomers.

Note that it seems that the double charging of the Dec-Jan line rental is common to several customers. Unfortunately this forum does not allow me to post links :mad: but with some googling you can find the relevant postings on usergroups and forums. Customers who called before direct debit charge where dismissed with a "too late" answer and "we'll slowly refund you at our ease".

Note also that they have a long history of (1) billing mistake (never to their disadvantage); (2) deliberate choice of very short notice of direct debit payment making corrections quite difficult; (3) threatening e-mails to honest customers such as "if you don't pay we'll block your account" and "if you dare stop the direct debit payment we'll suppress you"; (4) they do not want to improve. I also believe there is a breach of rules of politeness, of any common sense.

My friends, this is PLUSNET, a great company controlled by BT!!!! My complimnents.

mjm3346

FrankTheRed wrote: »

A £5 refund? This seems ridiculous. A refund must be (a) quite higher (minimum 3-4 times) the amount claimed back so as to be a deterrent; (b) proportionate to the time spent by the customer dealing with the problem; (c) symmetrical to the extra charges to late paying customers (which are £7.5 + £10); and (d) increased in case the time for refunds is too slow and in any case larger than the minimum notice of direct debit sent to cstomers.
.

Do you have a reference to the Law which requires this as it would be very useful to quote it to them?

nadger

Laz123 wrote: »

I moved from them years ago. Whenever I asked for a MAC code they would always provide my transfer a few days after I'd paid a month's payment. That meant I was paying them for nothing for almost a month.

Up until recently it was a requirement with most ISPs that one gave, and paid for, a 30 day notice period.

Timing when one used mac code could reduce the double billing period - when I migrated to Plusnet, from Pipex, I used code the day it was issued as, by then, I just wanted to move.:j

Plusnet have now reduced notice period to 10 days.:T

dfh

I use Plusnet and they are not half as bad as Talk Talk.

nadger

No swearing please :A

FrankTheRed

mjm3346 wrote: »

Do you have a reference to the Law which requires this as it would be very useful to quote it to them?

Sorry, I have no reference to the law and I have also moved only recently to the UK, so I cannot help you "formally". But most of it is common sense. You do not want £5 to get rich, do you? It such a ridiculous sum that you can refuse it, right?

If we ask for compensation it is not a matter of money but of honour. :A Plusnet should have to give a strong message: "we will not do it again and in the future we'll respect customers and be polite". Such a message is received if the compensation is a sufficient deterrent. Otherwise it is be far too simple: simply buy the few who protest for a few pence, so they'll shut their mouth, and continue business as usual.

But, more specifically:
a) see above
b) legally speaking compensation has to repay the harm to the customer. This means e.g. that they have to pay back the time spent running after them at your working hourly rate, whether that time is spent on-line, over the phone, or writing registered letters, plus any expenses incurred (overdraft charges, postage stamps, etc.). And a compensation for the feeling of insecurity about one's bank account integrity, since they go and take the money themselves giving you little chance to stop it. Their impolite ways are also breaches of your honour and should be compensated. But just the time is already certainly more than £5.
c) According to "fair trade" rules, they must apply a symmetrical behaviour. E.g. if the apply late payment charges of £17.50, they should also automatically give you at least that same amount in addition to any refund after overcharging you. If it is not automatic (i.e. you have to ask for it) they have to add a compensation as in point b.
d) Whatever they owe you as a compensation, they have to pay it immediately. If they delay it, then that delay is value for money. The same applies to you if you pay late (i.e. an interest rate will be applied to you in addition to fees and penalties).

More simply, and without any knowledge of the law, in the country I lived before I had a dispute with the telephone company about an amount of €50. Note: it was not a billing mistake (I have never seen that before Plusnet!!!) but they thought I had agreed to pay for a connection fee whereas at the time of the agreement it was advertised to be free (several months had passed between agreement and billing and this had changed in the mean time). Customer service would not refund me, so I had to take them to the Chamber of Commerce, where I asked for a €150 compensation. I got everything I asked for, without any need to know the law and even any need for any discussion on details (I just had to be firm and patient). :cool2: I then realized that if I had asked for €300 I'd probably had it. _pale_

What Plusnet does, overcharge a certain amount of customers and then refund them two weeks later, is a sort of cash advance. They probably have financial diffculties and use customer bank accounts to go on a few days. The single amounts are small and many people are even unlikely to notice, but when added up they build up a good budget. When they refund you, they'll take the money to someone else. Every customer, in turns, lends them money unknowingly. So, be sure of one thing: it will happen again!