Red Debt Collection

sportyrich2000_2

I recently received a letter from Red to my girlfriends mothers address claiming I owed money on a Mobile phone contract from years ago (from what I remember of my old contract this had to be 5 years ago minimum). I read up on this agency across several forums and realised they had bought the debt and were 'trying it on'. I contacted them by email and gave them 12 days to show me proof that I owed this money and if they didnt respond then I would presume they were 'trying it on' and that I would consider my next actions. Unsurprisingly they have not responded with any proof and I presume they have decided it wasnt worth pursuing.

Given that they used threats of bailiffs and court action for a debt they had no proof of I was wondering whether I can report them to anyone. I have heard across the various forums that they use these bully boy tactics and while I am happy to fight my corner I dont want them harassing other people, particularly nice old ladies!

What can I do to help in the fight against them?

Rich

I_know_my_ABC_and_my_CMYK

Unless you send the correct letter requesting a copy of you signed credit agreement with a postal order for £1 they will not give up.

How do you know they are 'trying it on'? You actually may owe a debt and unless you ask them to prove it in the correct format you will not know.

Search the debt board for a template letter and do not sign the letter and send it recorded delivery.

It is highly unlikely they will just bin it.

sportyrich2000_2

I didnt realise I had to send exactly the correct letter. what I sent them was an email requesting proof that I owed the money which I would have thought they were legallky obliged to do prior to me paying for anything. I gave them a reasonable time (12 days was often mentioned on forums) to respond and they havent even responded saying they are trying.

I am 99.9% certain I dont owe anything as at the time I would have terminated the contract and paid up anything outstanding. I admit I could have made a mistake but find that unlikely as in the 5 years I have never been chased by 02. Also I make the assumption of trying it on because pretty much every forum I have looked on so far has said much the same about their tactics.

spike7451

Lowell,Red & their solicitors are the same company,They're trying to get £700 odd out of me as they bought a debt off '3' as I terminated the contact with '3' as I got little or no service where I live.
Even tho I'm out of work at present (hopefully I'll be in work by 31'st Jan,2nd interview on Tuesday!) they're phoneing me at least once a week looking payment.
(I've no problem paying when I get a job!)
DO NOT give them your mobile or home phone number! Best get a free sim & stick that in an old phone & use that.

Butlers1982

I am 99.9% certain I dont owe anything

that other 0.1% then is the percentage that means you owe something.

RobertoMoir

sportyrich2000 wrote: »

I didnt realise I had to send exactly the correct letter. what I sent them was an email requesting proof that I owed the money which I would have thought they were legallky obliged to do prior to me paying for anything. I gave them a reasonable time (12 days was often mentioned on forums) to respond and they havent even responded saying they are trying.

I am 99.9% certain I dont owe anything as at the time I would have terminated the contract and paid up anything outstanding. I admit I could have made a mistake but find that unlikely as in the 5 years I have never been chased by 02. Also I make the assumption of trying it on because pretty much every forum I have looked on so far has said much the same about their tactics.

Well the answer is obvious isn't it. Write a REAL LETTER to them using the correct format.

spike7451

RobertoMoir wrote: »

Well the answer is obvious isn't it. Write a REAL LETTER to them using the correct format.

This is the link to the letter that the BBC's 'Watchdog' programme done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/consumer_advice/pdf/debt.pdf
And this is Watchdog's report on Lowell,of whome Red ar part..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/01/the_chase_for_debts_not_always.html
hth,
Spike.

xocbc

sportyrich2000 wrote: »

I didnt realise I had to send exactly the correct letter. what I sent them was an email requesting proof that I owed the money which I would have thought they were legallky obliged to do prior to me paying for anything. I gave them a reasonable time (12 days was often mentioned on forums) to respond and they havent even responded saying they are trying.

I am 99.9% certain I dont owe anything as at the time I would have terminated the contract and paid up anything outstanding. I admit I could have made a mistake but find that unlikely as in the 5 years I have never been chased by 02. Also I make the assumption of trying it on because pretty much every forum I have looked on so far has said much the same about their tactics.

Companies like O2 do the occasional trawl through their old accounts, and sell on old debt to companies like Red.

By contacting Red you have now ensured that they will not go away...

My GF had the same scenario late last year, although she did owe 02 money from about 4-5 years ago. She didn't contact them at first, but after a few months they wrote and offered to accept half the balance as full and final payent, which she agreed to to get rid of them (and to clear the debt).

Might be an idea to check your credit report to see if Red have registered it as a default.

You will be better advice re this matter on the "Bankruptcy and Living With It" forum btw.

fluffnutter

If you don't owe the money, bin the letter. No need to do anything more. If you do owe the money, or you're not sure, contact the original company who, if the debt is genuine, will have records.

If you want to report the debt company, you can do so at https://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk. This site also offers general advice and templates if you want to write to companies to complain.

Many debt companies use this approach, relying on vaguely menacing tactics and people's poor memories to screw money that isn't even owed. Always, always contact the original company to determine whether the debt is legitimate (and how much is exactly owed). And make sure you check your credit file to see if the company's posted a default notice.

I'm not sure that debt can actually be chased after (I think) six years. This may be the legal position; the moral one is slightly more complicated I guess... Merely waiting six years and then announcing 'Yippee, it's too late to chase me for that credit card I never paid' is a bit dubious...

solodanceparty

Have you spoken to o2? They should have some sort of record of this debt.

paulitto

Anyone having problems with Red should follow these letters below and send it to them.

I done as stated in this post and hey presto i got it all written off. over £2k worth too.

The key thing also is too not sign the letter you send them as this can miraciuosly appear on a signed document they claim you have signed.

Statute Barred debts.

A debt will be "Statute Barred" if there has been no acknowledgement of the debt by you making a payment or in writing within the relevant limitation period.

The debt would then be legally UNENFORCEABLE.

If you are in England/Wales then the limitation period is 6 years

If you are in Scotland then the limitation period is 5 years

If you feel the debt is "Statute Barred", then there is a letter to write at the end of each factsheet.

England/Wales.

Quote:

1 High Street,
Newtown,
Kent
R21 4RH
Date

The Loan Company
Company House,
Church Street,
Newtown,
Kent,
R1 7HG

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any other company or organisation that you claim to be representing.

Dear Sir/Madam

Account No:

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time.

Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me/us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I/we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

I/we await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I/we look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully




Mrs A N Other
Scotland.

Quote:

1 High Street,
Newtown,
Kent
R21 4RH
Date

The Loan Company
Company House,
Church Street,
Newtown,
Kent,
R1 7HG

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any other company or organisation that you claim to be representing.

Dear Sir/Madam

Ref: xxxxxxxxxxx

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that under The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 Part 1 Prescription Section 6:

"If after an appropriate date, an obligation (an appropriate debt) has subsided for a continuous period of five years:

(a) without any relevant claim having been made in relation to the obligation, and
(b) without the subsistence of the obligation having been relevantly acknowledged;

then as from the expiration of that period the obligation shall be extinguished..."

I/we would also point out that the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that:

"It is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last written acknowledgement/payment of this debt was made over five years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me/us in the relevant period under Part 1 Section 6of the above Act, I/we suggest that you are no longer able to take anycourt action against me/us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that:

"continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment".

I/we await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I/we look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully






Mrs A N Other
And a follow up letter if they won't go away.

Report them to the OFT and Trading Standards as well.

Quote:
I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any other company or organisation that you claim to be representing.

Acc/Ref No: *******************

FORMAL COMPLAINT under the complaint procedures set out by the Financial Ombudsman.

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2008, the contents of which are noted.

On xx/xx/2008 I wrote to <Name of debt collector> regarding a debt that was alleged to be owed by myself. That letter was received and signed for on xx/xx/2008 as confirmed by Royal Mail tracking.

In this letter I pointed out the following items:

1) Under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

2) The OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

3) The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me to recover the alleged amount claimed.

4) The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

Therefore it is clear that your original contact regarding this debt may well have been in breach of the Office of Fair Trading Guideline referred to in item (2).

Furthermore, your second letter is in breach of Office of Fair Trading Guideline referred to in item (4) and directly constitutes harassment.

As you are no doubt aware, breaches of the OFT's Guidance on Debt Collection are treated seriously by the OFT when considering your fitness to hold a Consumer Credit License.

In particular the OFT has recently stated that:

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the Act) requires debt collectors, businesses that offer goods or services on credit and/or are involved in activities relating to credit or hire to be licensed by the OFT. Following implementation of the OFT's new powers under the Consumer Credit Act 2006 on 6 April 2008, the companies could also have specific 'requirements' imposed on them by the OFT. If such a requirement was not complied with, the business concerned could be subject to a financial penalty of up to £50,000. The OFT can also refuse or revoke a licence if it decides that a trader is not fit to hold one. The OFT can take into account any circumstances which appear to be relevant when considering the fitness of an applicant or licensee, including evidence that the company has contravened the Data Protection Act 1988.

Furthermore, that the OFT has recently enforced their guidelines by placing a legal requirement on Mackenzie Hall Ltd to cease pursuing statute barred or disputed debts.

Therefore I wish to formally notify you that unless I received confirmation that this matter is now closed, then I will not hesitate to make a formal complaint to the 'Office of Fair Trading' and also to 'Trading Standards'.

Furthermore, any attempted contact (other than to confirm that this matter is now closed) by any:

• "trading style" of the <Name of debt collector> group
• constituent member of the <Name of debt collector> group
• a third party acting on your behalf
• a third party that claims to have been legally assigned this debt

will result in an immediate complaint to the aforementioned regulatory bodies.

Also please note that any legal action you may consider will be FULLY and VIGOROUSLY defended, and you will be put to a strict proof of the alleged debt and any payment or acknowledgement that you claim within the relevant limitation period.

Furthermore, you may consider this letter a FORMAL COMPLAINT under the complaint procedures set out by the Financial Ombudsman. If you wish to correspond with myself with any other purpose than to confirm that this matter is now closed, then I require you to supply me with a written copy of your complaints procedure and a "final response" that I may forward to the Financial Ombudsman with my complaint.

This COMPLAINT is not going to go away and ignoring this problem could potentially make your situation worse. I therefore strongly recommend that you send written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.