Public sector redundency?

Lady007

dpassmore wrote: »

Managers do not make the rules. There are legal requirements that have to be adhered to by company's implementing redundancies. Ignore them and they run the risk of redress at tribunal.

I clearly did not suggest that Companies ignore rules. Yes there are legal requirements that have to be met but most organisations will have their internal rules/policies to follow as well - especially if they are a large organisation . Within such Organisations Policies are drawn up by HR whether they need to be negotiated with the union or not. If you worked for me and I wanted to make you in particular Redundant I could. I know the rules and how to bend them.

I write, not from opinion as you do, but from knowledge and years of experience of working within HR.

exil

This is the problem with using "performance" as a basis - it can be used as a proxy for "I don't like so-and-so's face" or "he never buys me a drink in the pub at lunchtime". It can also lead to a frenzy of competitive unpaid overtime and brown-nosing as people contend with each other to appear to be the most deserving of keeping their jobs.

Objective criteria are better - however WHICH criteria you use could also be manipulated to achieve the desired result.

dickydonkin

I clearly did not suggest that Companies ignore rules.

But you as an apparent HR representative of your company STATED that HR make the rules. The comment below is a laugh. You reckon that I would not be unaware that you broke any 'rules' during a redundancy situation? Pleeeeze!
I reiterate - you do not make the rules. For sure, your company may have a redundancy policy but that will be based on current and required legislation.

HR make the rules, therefore know how to break them without you being any the wiser.

If you worked for me and I wanted to make you in particular Redundant I could. I know the rules and how to bend them.

Then the above comments are somewhat contradictory don't you think? BTW - could I suggest you replace the word 'rules' with law or legislation which have been devised over many years by governments and legal precedent - not by company's, managers or indeed HR personnel. Disregard such legislation at your peril.


Many people would be able to see how you "bent the rules" and seemingly victimised me. From some of your postings, if I was your employer, I would be extremely worried as you have been factually incorrect and based many of your views on assumptions that have transpired to be incorrect. Should you deploy you views and interpretations within your workplace, based on the comments you have posted, many would perceive your actions as being a potential liability to your company - your statements above compound that view.

My wife's former employer recently attempted such a ploy, but it did not work to his cost I might add. He had HR people who were not CIPD qualified and were just downright incompetent.


Thankfully, I do not work for your company, but I sympathise for the people who do and they should be worried knowing that you come out with crass statements as above.

Indeed in a former life, I had many dealings with the HR department of an employer of over 600 people representing many colleagues in redundancy situations and your attitude compounds my view of most HR personnel, although I concede there were some who were totally professional and worked for the company’s interest AND the employees.

I am not going to get involved with an online slanging match, but should you really be offering seemingly sympathetic 'advice' to people who are in redundancy situations after making the comments above?

I think many on this forum will draw their own conclusions!

I write, not from opinion as you do, but from knowledge and years of experience of working within HR

Once again, another incorrect assumption. I actually used to work in the HR department of my former company albeit not in an HR role as such, but for the role I performed, there were some aspects of the HR function that were relative to my position.

I was also union branch secretary prior to that representing the interests of hundreds of colleagues, so I have actually seen redundancies from both sides of the fence so to speak, therefore I write not based on opinions as you have incorrectly quoted, but my experiences during many (indeed far too many) redundancy situations.


Incidentally, my wifes former HR manager also believed she had 'knowledge and experience' by virtue of many years of working within HR - unfortunately to her company's cost, she was found sadly lacking!

eamon

Beware of the redeployment trap as well. In theory it sounds grand and makes management (the budget holder) feel good. In practice though it can be very different. The moment your job is sacrificed/restructed/removed from the budget you become a non person! You are no longer part of the team, excluded from meetings. Your (ex) line manager no longer knows what to do with you and assumes that you have have been passed to the tender care of the redeployment team. You are now in limbo. Do you carry on with your old duties until told otherwise? (In theory you can't and shouldn't as your job no longer exists) Do you sit at your desk and become the elephant in the room?
As for redeployment. If there are many redundancies over many areas then the chances of redeployment drop. You still have to apply for any internal vacancies that crop up and that you could do. What you do get is first sight of any vacancies a guaranteed interview (should you apply and meet the criteria). An opportunity to get on training courses if it makes you more sellable and doesn't break their budget. Normally the redeployment process will last 12 weeks (conveniently this can be the same as your notice period) but it can be extended. Your existing salary will usually be protected for a set period of time but normally only down one grade.
Be cautious if you take a job with a neighbouring LA or similar body as it could have an adverse impact if you were anticipating a largish redundancy payout. Check out the link below.
http://www.lge.gov.uk/lge/core/page.do?pageId=119733

Eamon

Lady007

I'm glad that not everyone contributing to this topic thinks that they are always right - i certainly don't as every situation is unique and steadfast advice can not be offered without knowing the policies and terms and conditions of the organisations concerned.

Most sensible posters will understand that this is a discussion forum whereby general advice is available although there are qualified, experienced people who are willing to offer "advice".

There are also those who have worked in HR but not in a HR Role! (lol) - everyone is entitled to their opinion be it good, bad or ugly.

Getting back to the original post - the LA that i work for has "Reviews" planned over the next 2 years. Every single department will be affected.

dickydonkin

There are also those who have worked in HR but not in a HR Role! (lol)

Oh dear!

Lady007, let me explain to stop you making a fool of yourself. You are embarrassing yourself with some of your postings that are in response to mine - numerous spelling and grammar mistakes aside, (although many of us are guilty of the occasional indscretion), you assume far too much - incorrectly I might add. Now let me enlighten you on the above which you seem to find amusing for some reason.

I was employed as a Health & Safety Officer at my previous company - now as you claim to work in Human Resources, you will or should be well aware that many companies (certainly the better and larger ones) have their safety personnel incorporated within their HR department if no specific health and safety department exists.

There are of course smaller companies such as the one my wife used to work for that had no safety professional on site or indeed CIPD qualified HR personnel, just one lady who by virtue of dealing with HR issues claimed she was competent, and she would not have been aware of such a common arrangement either.

Our HR dept consisted of the HR manager (who I reported to directly along with the company director), an HR administrator (who had both achieved their formal CIPD qualifications and knew what they were talking about), a secretary and myself. I have no CIPD qualifications as they were not relevant or a requirement for my position, however, I was NEBOSH qualified - which was.

Lady007 I would be quite surprised if you were not familiar with such a common arrangement, so again I will reiterate that I worked within the HR department of a large company although I did not have a specific HR role as I have already explained I was the company Health & Safety Officer.

That made some aspects of my role easier in respect of accessing training records, planning training sessions by shift and being involved in disciplinary procedures where company safety requirements had been breached by employees. Indeed, I was poacher turned Gamekeeper in some respects taking into consideration my former role as a union branch official.

Again Lady007, you have jumped in with a response without thinking.


Apolonation please forgive me for hijacking your thread, but I feel I need to redress the incorrect assumptions and statements thrown at me. I am attempting (with great difficulty) to explain that my postings are not based on assumptions and unsubstantiated opinions, but based on experience over numerous years of dealing with many many redundancy and work related issues (disciplinaries, disputes, tribunals etc...) in my capacity as a Union official and assisting in my own and family's redundancies.

I am not suggesting I am correct all of the time (like some), but when I do post, where potentially contentious issues arise, I do express my thoughts based on examples I have had experience with and issue a caveat that professional advice should be sought where necessary.

This forum is a good starting point for advice as many people may have experienced similar circumstances and it is great to know that people take the time and effort to assist people - many of who are distressed, and long may it continue, but if my future postings are to be deemed as credible, I feel the need to address the questioning of my ability to post replies. I hope that I have achieved that.

anewloginapparently

My whole team were told with 5 days notice our clinic was shutting and we were out of the job, we work for the NHS, we were given 1 months pay in lieu of notice.

caeler

Does anybody have access to the available compensation payments under Local Government (Compensation for Redundancy) Regulations 1994?

I understand those under 50 (soon to rise to 55) are entitled to an enhanced compensation, those over 50 are entitled to uncapped statutory redundancy compensation and early access to pension. Discretionary added years were done away with in 2008 under Discretionary Compensation Regulations.

Can anybody who works in a LA verify this?

Pixieboy

bluefuzzybug, that legislation no longers applies.
This does instead
The Local Government (Early Termination of Employment) (Discretionary Compensation) (England and Wales) Regulations 2006
avaiable here
http://timeline.lge.gov.uk/comp/20093150/20062914.htm#5
No age restrictions to this, depends on the authority's policy on it's application.
It allows for -
- enhancement of redundancy payment if statutory RP based on capped weeks pay. Max. effect is to take payment to RP based on uncapped weeks pay.
- further lump sum to take total up to no more than 104 weeks pay.
This is discretionary though - authority should have a policy in place regarding how they operate though.

LGPS benefits payable immediately if 55 or over at date of redundancy; if redundant before 31/3/2010# then if was a member on 31/3/2008 and age 50 or over at date of redundancy, then benefits payable immediately also. # may change to before 1/4/2010...

Frazer01

Be cautious if you take a job with a neighbouring LA or similar body as it could have an adverse impact if you were anticipating a largish redundancy payout. Check out the link below.
http://www.lge.gov.uk/lge/core/page.do?pageId=119733

Eamon[/QUOTE]

Sorry to butt in, - does this also apply vice versa? I was TUPED out of LA 3 years ago to a Housing Trust, and now face a 'botched' redundancy/restructure,- they have not offered redundancy, just a demotion on less hours. I have just been offered a job share position back in the LA, will I lose any possible redundnacy pay if I take it?