Urgent help required

Bob_Unknown

Hi

I would appreciate any help anyone can offer as I am really worried about this situation.

Back in March 2007 my mother and I moved into to a new council property and I paid the rent and council tax as I was in full time employment, whereas my mum is on benefits.

In July of the same year my brother, who has a mortgage, offered me his spare room for more than half the cost.

Fast forward to now and the council are enquiring as to why I am a: having my post sent to my mums address b: am not on the electoral roll at my brothers address and c: why my brother is receiving single occupancy discount on his council tax.

The reason my mail goes to my mums address is because I never advised my creditors that I had moved. The reason I didn't bother was because I pay my mums TV license to help her out and visit her almost every might as she is 10 mins drive from my work and she is a much better cook than my brother. I genuinley didn't think it was a big deal. Its as easy to collect my post at her house as it is to have it delivered to my brothers.

I agreed rent with my brother at the time and tbh, council tax and electoral rolls didn't even come into my thought process.

They have told my mum that at the very least my brother will have to pay the back dated council tax discount or at worst she will be liable for this at her address with the 'rent' also being backdated!!! We are talking thousands of pounds at this point.

I have had a major blowout with my brother as I think he should have sorted this out at the time and he is now telling me that I will be paying any backdated ct at his address if that happens.

I am staying at a friends for the next couple of nights and think the best thing would be to apply for half tenacy at my mums house. What do you think this entails. I have no idea what to do... this is just a total mess.

Please help

simpywimpy

It's whoevers name is on the council tax to tell them the change in circumstances so technically it's up to your brother to do it. The repayment of the discount is also up to him however, in the circumstances you might want to help him out being family etc.

If this had not been a family member you were dealing with but rent a room arrangement you would not be expected to pay an extra amount because your landlord had failed to notify the council so why should now be any different? That is of course if your weekly rent was including all services

You could apply to go on the tenancy at your mums address but the council dont always agree to it. My SIL is now having to move because MIL is going in a home and it wasnt a joint tenancy.

Having your mail delivered to your mums will constitute living there in the eyes of the council hence the problems you are all having.

Whiteknight

Was your mother claiming benefits to help with the rent and council tax (HB/CTB) or were the local authority taking your income and the fact they you lived there into account when they calculated the any help due to your mother? (sorry you mentioned you had been paying the rent but for your mum but did this stop when you moved out)

If your mother has been claiming help with the rent/council tax for her home and has informed the council that you have moved she would have been asked where you had gone. And your brother should have notified the council that he was no longer living alone.

Could you not just move back in with your mother, why would you need a half tenancy?

leemack

At the moment the council have to decide whether they think you were living with your brother or your mum. The best thing to do is to provide some proof that you were paying rent to your brother, was there a tenancy agreement? Or standing order to his account? Or any other proof. Take the proof into the council with a signed letter stating exactly what happened and why, explain that it was cheaper for you etc.

It's your brother's responsibility to inform the council that there is someone else living at his address and any charge to you for staying there should have taken into account council tax. I know how difficult it is with these informal family arrangements.

The council will then decide whether they think you you were living at your brother's or at your mum's.

If they decide you were living at your mum's then they will write to her informing her of an overpayment and she will need to appeal this decision and possibly you and your mum will have to go to hearing to argue the case.

Be aware though, if they haven't already they may ask your mum or your brother to attend a taped interview under caution.

The worst isn't haven't to pay back the overpayment, the worst is your mum being accused of fraud - I'm not saying it will happen, but it is a possibility.

I know you need somewhere to live and have fallen out with your brother, but if you do move back in with her it may look to an investigating officer as if you've been living there all along and have now been rumbled. There's not much you can do though if you have move in with her as you don't have anywhere else to live.

Bob_Unknown

My mum informed the council when I moved out but it seems my brother did nothing.

Should I perhaps find my own rental property and let this run its course. I don't see how they can prove I was living with my mum if this wasn't the case. My arrangement with my brother was completely informal.. I just paid him cash every week.

Should I seek legal advise over this matter?

leemack

Bob_Unknown wrote: »

My mum informed the council when I moved out but it seems my brother did nothing.

Should I perhaps find my own rental property and let this run its course. I don't see how they can prove I was living with my mum if this wasn't the case. My arrangement with my brother was completely informal.. I just paid him cash every week.

Should I seek legal advise over this matter?

The question unfortunately in these situations is often can you prove that you weren't living her? They make these decisions on a balance of probability and your mail going to your mum's address and not being declared at your brothers are things not in your favour, you need to try and change the balance by showing proof that you were at your brother's to try and nip things in the bud. If your brother will help because there is much less money involved in his 25% discount than in your mum's HB and CTB.

Vader123

Bob_Unknown wrote: »

Should I seek legal advise over this matter?

Yes

Bob_Unknown wrote: »

Fast forward to now and the council are enquiring as to why I am a: having my post sent to my mums address b: am not on the electoral roll at my brothers address and c: why my brother is receiving single occupancy discount on his council tax.

Thats a very legitamate question and needs to be answered!

When you rely on the state to pay to your keep (ie your mum, your brother, and you for a while) you need to satisfy their conditions.

Vader

Bob_Unknown

How would I tip things in my balance when I had such an informal arrangement.

I have decided for sure to rent my own place and have submitted a couple of requests for viewing asap. I understand that the council are right to do what they are doing. I have been in consistent employment with the same company for ten years, since the age of 16 and as a taxpayer would expect no less.

I dont mean to sound as though I am feeling sorry for myself but the only thing I am guilty of is being naive and not sorting these things out myself at the time.

Thanks for all your responses

Vader123

Bob_Unknown wrote: »

I dont mean to sound as though I am feeling sorry for myself but the only thing I am guilty of is being naive and not sorting these things out myself at the time.

Your guilty of not informing the DWP (plus your brother and mother) of a change of circumstances.

When on benefits thats very important.

Vader

Bob_Unknown

With the greatest of respect Vader, my mother had informed the council that I had moved at the time and didn't realize that my mail going to her address was a problem. Like I said I should have been more responsible at the time.

Macro_3

Vader123 wrote: »

Your guilty of not informing the DWP (plus your brother and mother) of a change of circumstances.

When on benefits thats very important.

Vader

Am I missing something? What should he have informed the DWP of? What has he claimed?

His mother rightly informed the LA when he left. It's her claim, so it's her responsibility.

The brother did not ask the LA CT department to remove his single persons discount - and I suspect that since July 2007 he has had to 'renew' his single person status with council tax at least twice - it's usually yearly. But it's his CT bill, he is the liable person, it's his responsibility.

The only one who appears to have behaved fraudulently (going on the info given) is the brother.


OP would your brother really see your mother accused of benefit fraud to save a couple of years worth of 25% of his single persons discount. What are we talking, £500 - £1000 maybe? Surely he will be honest?