John Lewis - poor customer service

Retty

Just a warning:

I bought a child car seat from JL (Reading). I paid a bit extra for the seat partly because JL were offering a 2 year guarantee and partly because of their reputation.

At 13 months the seat developed a fault which prevented it from being used safely.

I called JL (the Reading store) for advice on what to do. I was told by the switch operator that the relevant department would be contacted by email - they were constantly unavailable by phone despite attempts over three days to contact them.

After one week of no response - and not being able to use the seat - I took the seat in to the store.

At least JL was consistent: the in store service was as bad as the telephone service.

They told me that the seat would have to be sent away for repair and that it would be back within four to six weeks. The fault was clearly due to a problem with the internal mechanism jamming yet they refused to replace the seat under guarantee.

I explained to the assistant that this would mean that I would not have access to the seat for 4 to 6 weeks and be unable to travel anywhere out of public transport range. I also explained that the fault was not due to anything I had done.

They has the same seats in stock at a lower price but refused to replace the seat - despite the fact that they could have taken up with the fault with the manufacturer.

In the end I had no option but to contact the manufacturer directly and enquire after a private repair.

I was surprised by the response of JL to an in gurantee fault for such an essential safety item. The customer service was actually shockingly bad.

I have read here about other people having problems with the JL extended guarantee on televisions.

All I would say is as far as the JL sales pitch and company image is concerned not everything is what it seems to be.

molerat

I think the only gripe you have is the contact problem. They offered to repair the seat which is a reasonable remedy. The manufacturer would not have given them a credit without first having the seat back for repair. I very much doubt it would have taken that length of time, most manufacturers turn them round in under a week. Most manufacturers will offer a loan seat. What make and model seat is it and what was the problem ?

cyberbob

Personally never had any problems with JL customer service. They do not have to offer a replacement so offering a repair is normal. Also no one would offer a replacement before checking out the fault

Retty

molerat wrote: »

I think the only gripe you have is the contact problem. They offered to repair the seat which is a reasonable remedy. The manufacturer would not have given them a credit without first having the seat back for repair. I very much doubt it would have taken that length of time, most manufacturers turn them round in under a week. Most manufacturers will offer a loan seat. What make and model seat is it and what was the problem ?

The seat was Maxi Cosi.

JL told me 4 to 6 weeks for return.

The fault was an internal mechanism fault (spring catch problem).

JL would not offer a loan seat - they said safety concerns prevented them from doing so. I asked for one as a compromise.

The assistant was unconcerned with the fact that I would be without a seat for 4 to 6 weeks and cited company policy.

The point of my post is that the customer service was very poor indeed and the guarantee was effectively worthless because a working car seat is a legal requirement i.e. if you wish to use a car with a baby you need a seat and other than borrowing one (if you can) you must therefore in the absence of a loan seat buy a new one (which defeats the object of the 2 year guarantee).

The other point I was making is that it does not always ultimately pay to pay extra for a standard product from a kudos based retailer. JL could easily, without any risk to their profit margin, have agreed to provide an in stock replacement for such an important safety item. The decided not to despite the fact that it was not a high cost item (about £110), that the problem was not connected with misuse, that it was an essential safety item covered by guarantee and that, importantly, I was reasonable and polite in requesting their assistance.

People have complained here about similar issues with the 5 year tv guarantee so there may be a theme in terms of JL, guarantees and customer service.

I received a much better response from the manufacturer helpline. Have received far better service from Mothercare, Argos and Asda.

I actually doubt whether or not, in respect of the two year guarantee, the offer of a 4 to 6 week turnaround repair in respect of such an essential item was a reasonable offer in respect of my statutory rights. In hindsight I should have issued notice of small claims on the basis of breach of contract (guarantee) with cause of action being reasonable expectations, in respect of an essential safety item, of guarantee.

I will never know whether or not escalating the problem with JL management as a complaint in respect of failure to return calls would have achieved a better result. I couldn't really wait and obviously had to make an emergency arrangement.

molerat

Maxi-cosi usually offer a loan seat. They 99/100 fix in less than a week. This is from experience of working for a child seat retailer.

frannyann

I have used the 'undue inconvenience' part of the sale of goods, when told that something will need to be 'sent off for repair'. Sure someone will quote it properly for me (or tell me I am wrong mentioning no [STRIKE]trolls[/STRIKE] names :rolleyes:)

I would have said, 'That under the sale of goods act, I require a replacment chair as the time to sent it back for repair would cause me 'undue inconvenience' That has worked for me (even though I was referring to a TV, once I had uttered this phrase I was invited to choose a replacement there and then) Worth a try?

The_Pedant

They do not have to offer a replacement so offering a repair is normal

However, under the Sale of Goods act, any remedy should be provided without causing "significant inconvenience" to the buyer.

Not being able to safely transport your child for 4-6 weeks, I would say, IS a significant inconvenience.

I would therefore insist on them arranging for a loan seat, even if this will mean having to wait a short while for one to be provided. The chances are, if you escalated this in store, they would indeed see what they can do (well, I would expect them to).

vyle

Retty wrote: »

Just a warning:

I bought a child car seat from JL (Reading). I paid a bit extra for the seat partly because JL were offering a 2 year guarantee and partly because of their reputation.

If you saw it cheaper elsewhere, why didn't you try reporting an undersale ?

At 13 months the seat developed a fault which prevented it from being used safely.

I called JL (the Reading store) for advice on what to do. I was told by the switch operator that the relevant department would be contacted by email - they were constantly unavailable by phone despite attempts over three days to contact them.

Most departments have up to three phones. On departments where staff spend more time with customers (such as mine) there are more, but if it's a busy period, it's not physically possible to answer a phone while serving customers.

After one week of no response - and not being able to use the seat - I took the seat in to the store.

At least JL was consistent: the in store service was as bad as the telephone service.

They told me that the seat would have to be sent away for repair and that it would be back within four to six weeks. The fault was clearly due to a problem with the internal mechanism jamming yet they refused to replace the seat under guarantee.

Which is legally acceptable. Certain items have a no questions ask debit period with them (Which is listed in the service guide, so any doubts, ask a member of staff to check that). After that period, it needs to be looked at by the manufacturer. There are very few instances where an untrained specialist can, without any shadow of doubt, categorically determine if something is a mechanical fault, or something different.

That's why it gets sent to the manufacturer, so they can check the fault and repair it.

I explained to the assistant that this would mean that I would not have access to the seat for 4 to 6 weeks and be unable to travel anywhere out of public transport range. I also explained that the fault was not due to anything I had done.

They has the same seats in stock at a lower price but refused to replace the seat - despite the fact that they could have taken up with the fault with the manufacturer.

I'm not familiar with the car seat process, but in other departments, if that happens, it leaves the department with new stock just thrown out of the window, and a repaired item that must be then sold for a reduced price when there is no reason to.

Every shop is in business to make money, and it makes no sense to throw money away when there's no good reason to.

I was surprised by the response of JL to an in gurantee fault for such an essential safety item. The customer service was actually shockingly bad.

I have read here about other people having problems with the JL extended guarantee on televisions.

All I would say is as far as the JL sales pitch and company image is concerned not everything is what it seems to be.

In guarantee essentially means it gets fixed free of charge without having to take legal action, not that it will get swapped at the drop of the hat or exchanged for an item of the same purchase value (for instance, somebody buys a £3000 tv 4 years ago, it goes wrong and they want a £3000 model to replace it).

molerat wrote: »

I think the only gripe you have is the contact problem. They offered to repair the seat which is a reasonable remedy. The manufacturer would not have given them a credit without first having the seat back for repair. I very much doubt it would have taken that length of time, most manufacturers turn them round in under a week. Most manufacturers will offer a loan seat. What make and model seat is it and what was the problem ?

The time quoted is longer than it will actually be, but offers a reasonable buffer zone, so to speak, to allow for any transport problems with the item, or unforseen hold-ups at the manufacturer's.

An item that's taken into the shop may not be wrapped up and sent away until the next day.

That would then be sent to the service department who will go through the same warranty claim procedure as a customer would, which can take another day.

A courier will then arrive later in that week to collect batches of items to be sent to the various manufacturers, which can take another day or two.

It then arrives at the manufacturer, who will do whatever they do, but by the process of it going through the shop, THEN the manufacturer, that adds time to the process.

Retty wrote: »

JL would not offer a loan seat - they said safety concerns prevented them from doing so. I asked for one as a compromise.

Would you really want a loan car seat other people had used? Very few people would be comfortable with that.

The assistant was unconcerned with the fact that I would be without a seat for 4 to 6 weeks and cited company policy.

They may have been very concerned, but even if they were crying and profusely apologising, they wouldn't have been able to do anything.

The point of my post is that the customer service was very poor indeed and the guarantee was effectively worthless because a working car seat is a legal requirement i.e. if you wish to use a car with a baby you need a seat and other than borrowing one (if you can) you must therefore in the absence of a loan seat buy a new one (which defeats the object of the 2 year guarantee).

So have you had to pay for the repair, or did maxi cosi repair it for free under guarantee?

The other point I was making is that it does not always ultimately pay to pay extra for a standard product from a kudos based retailer.

You didn't have to pay extra.

JL could easily, without any risk to their profit margin, have agreed to provide an in stock replacement for such an important safety item. The decided not to despite the fact that it was not a high cost item (about £110),

It would affect profit margins and if they do it for one person, they have to do it for everyone, for everything, and then go out of business.

that the problem was not connected with misuse,

That can't be determined until the manufacturer looks at it.

that it was an essential safety item covered by guarantee and that, importantly, I was reasonable and polite in requesting their assistance.

But a guarantee doesn't imply instant replacement, but at least you were polite. Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, staff have their hands tied. If they were to give a replacement, they'd get a ticking off from their section manager. If the SM agreed to it, they'd be moaned at by their Department manager for writing off stock. If the DM okayed it, the Operations manager would have a go. Especially in this economy, shops cannot afford to give out freebies when there are specific processes in place. Sad, but true.

People have complained here about similar issues with the 5 year tv guarantee so there may be a theme in terms of JL, guarantees and customer service.

there have been some unfortunate cases where somebody (usually the internet call centre) has got it wrong, but the majority of cases I've read have been with people not knowing what a guarantee actually offers.

I received a much better response from the manufacturer helpline. Have received far better service from Mothercare, Argos and Asda.

How many car seats have you had go wrong ?

I actually doubt whether or not, in respect of the two year guarantee, the offer of a 4 to 6 week turnaround repair in respect of such an essential item was a reasonable offer in respect of my statutory rights. In hindsight I should have issued notice of small claims on the basis of breach of contract (guarantee) with cause of action being reasonable expectations, in respect of an essential safety item, of guarantee.

I will never know whether or not escalating the problem with JL management as a complaint in respect of failure to return calls would have achieved a better result. I couldn't really wait and obviously had to make an emergency arrangement.

The guarantee and any turnaround relating to it are a rule unto themselves. If you were to incite the SOGA, then you would have to prove yourself that the item was inherantly faulty, which would involve sending it to a specialist, determining the fault, writing letters and possibly going to court, which would still leave you with a faulty car seat during that time frame, which could take more than six weeks. On top of that, you could actually end up with a portion of the cost of the car seat as a settlement, rather than a brand new car seat.

frannyann wrote: »

I have used the 'undue inconvenience' part of the sale of goods, when told that something will need to be 'sent off for repair'. Sure someone will quote it properly for me (or tell me I am wrong mentioning no [STRIKE]trolls[/STRIKE] names :rolleyes:)

I would have said, 'That under the sale of goods act, I require a replacment chair as the time to sent it back for repair would cause me 'undue inconvenience' That has worked for me (even though I was referring to a TV, once I had uttered this phrase I was invited to choose a replacement there and then) Worth a try?

That's only if the person you're speaking to is unfamiliar with SOGA and afraid of anything that sounds like it could amount to a legal threat. I actually not have a print-out of the SOGA (and important bullet points) in my tray at work, which I have used to befuddle anybody who tries to erroneously use SOGA against me.

It works both ways, if somebody has a genuine fault and reason to incite SOGA, that's fair enough, and I'll do everything I can to help, but when somebody pulls out the SOGA without knowing what it is, just because they think they can get free stuff, I'm not going to let that happen.

I'm sorry you had a problem with your car seat, but if you're going to get annoyed about any consumer rights being violated, it's best to know what your consumer rights actually are.

Storck

vyle - I must say that was probably the worse cut and paste job ever. I have read the whole thread and still could not follow half of your comments and where your quotes were from and by who. I'm guessing you work at JL and not in a department that deals with car seats. How do you suggest the OP moves her child around with the car seat for 4-6 weeks legally? The OP said they had seen it cheaper elsewhere, ie no JL, so not sure how she could complain about an undersale, she paid more to buy it from JL due to its reputation. And they obviously would have been happy using a seat used by others otherwise she wouldn't have asked for it.

vyle

any quote not named is from the previously named poster.

Sorry if it doesn't read very well :-\. I must be more tired than I thought, but I didn't cut and paste anything, just quote and modify the tags (somewhat badly I guess). OP seemed to want a new car seat written off to be a loan, or just a new car seat, which were not things offered under the warranty.

OP was annoyed because of this and wanted a straight swap without the item being checked by the manufacturer.

I guess it's necessary for OP to drive her child around, but I don't have a solution to what she could do. People suggesting she half-uses the SOGA aren't being very helpful, though, because she'd still have 6 weeks without a car seat.

And I am genuinely interested in knowing how many car seats have gone wrong, if argos, mothercare and Asda have had to replace them, and how long it took for them to go wrong.

Yes, the department should have emailed back, and as a staff member, there's very little that annoys me more than finding a call centre note laying about in the office, because I dont know if it's been dealt with, and often call back or email the customer to check. The department failed on that count.

But I don't see how offering OP what she's entitled to under the warranty is bad customer service. She can claim the staff member wasn't bothered, but she has no way of knowing that, unless she expects tears and profuse apology, which would ultimately achieve nothing.

vyle

Storck wrote: »

The OP said they had seen it cheaper elsewhere, ie no JL, so not sure how she could complain about an undersale, she paid more to buy it from JL due to its reputation.

The whole point of reporting an undersale is to say "i've seen it cheaper elsewhere, can you match it."

If it's in stock, cheaper, in another shop then they will match the price. That's why sony TV's prices have fallen through the floor this weekend. That's a huge part of the "never knowingly undersold" policy.