Parking Ticket Issued By Police in a private car park

superbiggles

Thanks peter_the_piper

I have been round twice, both occasions the police sided with the ticket. I have submitted an excusal form, backed up a letter from the centre manager so will have to wait and see. At the end of the day it is a £30 ticket, which I will get back from the centre unless they want to find new tenants for a 20 man office.

My gripe is over the legality. I thought it would be rather black and white, but reading the comments it seems everything is shades of grey.

peter_the_piper

If you really want to pursue it the go where I suggest. At the worst it would be £30.00 at best a clarification.

roddydogs

Whats the point in "The Staff" blocking one entrance, if theirs another way in?

neilmcl

superbiggles wrote: »

The property is owned by the business centre, the people are entering onto private property. If they cannot leave, that is then surely a matter for owner of the property? If someone drove onto your drive way and then you parked behind them, they have no legal right for you to move your car and let them back on the highway.

Simply put a drive on the front of your house isn't defined as a road within the terms of the RTA whereas, rightly or wrongly, the police have decided that the road onto your works premises is. Maybe the fact that effectively you have a throughroad, albeit blocked on one side by another staff member.

hollie.weimeraner

newfoundglory wrote: »

I work with someone who answered police calls in call centre, and he said that people would sometimes call up about cars blocking their driveway preventing a car on the driveway from getting OFF the driveway Apparently, the police can and should deal with this.... however, if the car is blocking the driveway and preventing car from getting ONTO the drive (ie. nothing already on the drive), then the police will do nothing.

I totally agree with your statement above but the big difference between that and the posters circumstances is that in the scenario above the vehicle causing the obstruction will be parked on the highway and not on private land.;)

sebdangerfield

And being a police officer, you'll be well aware that for the purposes of this offence the op's car park is not private land. A place to which the public have access. Tick. Whether by payment or otherwise. Tick.

And then the far more important part of the offence which again, as a police officer with 10 year's experience in traffic law you'll know is the fact in no part of the definition does the act say this can't be commited on private land. But either way, for the rta this isn't private land anyway. Possibly getting confused with civil law?

hollie.weimeraner

sebdangerfield wrote: »

And being a police officer, you'll be well aware that for the purposes of this offence the op's car park is not private land. A place to which the public have access. Tick. Whether by payment or otherwise. Tick.

And then the far more important part of the offence which again, as a police officer with 10 year's experience in traffic law you'll know is the fact in no part of the definition does the act say this can't be commited on private land. But either way, for the rta this isn't private land anyway. Possibly getting confused with civil law?

I don't intend getting into an argument over this but the original poster stated

This is my designated space which I pay annually to park in, the car in my space was therefore not authorised to be there.

There were no other spaces in the car park at that time so I parked where I could. Are the police allowed to issue fixed penalty notices on private property?

Please note the reference to PRIVATE property. Police have no legal authority for parking or obstruction on private property. The crux of this matter would be "do members of the public regularly park there or is parking restricted to those people that pay an annual charge only". Signage would also help showing that the car park is private land. At the end of the day the courts will probably decide whether the ticket is lawful, should the poster choose to go down that route. Personally if the circumstances are as posted I would challenge the ticket.

neilmcl

hollie.weimeraner wrote: »

Police have no legal authority for parking or obstruction on private property.

They do if the public are able to use the road (authorised or not) on that private property to get from A to B. There are a lot of examples of this, University campuses, Hospitals etc.

superbiggles

Neil surely a University or hospital is municipal property, not privately owned?

Imagine this scenario, the owner of the centre wishes to park across the entrance, could he still get a ticket, if he owns the land? You might say "yes" he is blocking all his tenants in, but as the owner of the land, surely he can do as he pleases?

sebdangerfield

I'm not going to argue either.

I'm suprised at a traffic officer's definition of a road though. For civil purposes, this isn't a road. For RTA purposes, it quite clearly is and always has been and always will be. I've never met a specialist traffic officer who wouldn't consider this a road.

Lifted directly from the definition of a road as stated in the Road Traffic Act;

It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks). In most cases, the law will apply to them and there may be additional rules for particular paths or ways. Some driving offences, including drink-driving offences, also apply to all public places, for example public car parks.

The crux of the matter is this;

The offence of unnecessary obstruction of the highway is defined as;

Highways Act 1980 section 137
Obstruction of the Highway

Quote:If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding £50.
A constable may arrest without warrant any person whom he sees committing an offence against this section.




Note, it doesn't say anywhere this offence can only be commited on a road. Also note the first quote, which proves the car park the OP was in is a road anyway.