Parking Ticket Issued By Police in a private car park

sebdangerfield

The European court of human rights may well dictate if something breached a person's basic human rights like, in this case in 1985 their lordships had been asked to consider the lawful use of the highway as in article 11 on the European Convention on Human Rights (the right of peacfull assembly). Lord Irvine stated to view any assembly on the highway as being prima facie unlawful.

But the issue here is, is the place in question Highway ?

I fail to see how this would apply here. What is and isn't defined as a highway is explicit in the RTA and other acts. Even so, this offence does not need to be commited on a highway as previously stated. the offender must simply prevent others from passing and re passing on one. If there is no highway, how did the OP get to the car park in the first place? By definition, even if it is not normally a highway then it becomes one as soon as it facilitates the OP's vehicle getting somewhere.

The strict liability will not exist if the officer exceeded his powers.

So if it's possible for a strict liabilty offence to change then by definition it must only be able to change to an offence of specific or ulterior intent as they are either/or. If you are correct that these offences can change from one to the other then what would the required mens rea be for an offender to be guilty of this? Your advice, at best is poor. Are you a trained law professional?

peter_the_piper

As I understand it, large signs saying "private car park" would effectively be the same as gates in this instance. We won't know anything until the op says if there are gates or signs.
I'll wait for further info before going further.

sebdangerfield

What part of the definition makes you understand it like that?

I know that sounds bulshy (and I don't mean to!) but if so many people are offering advice on law that I don't see to be accurate I start to worry about my own knowledge! Are you a law proffesional too?

Coupon-mad

I'm not - but I can (accurately) spell Bolshie and professional...:rolleyes: :cool::D

Sorry to be pedantic but both coblcris and peter_the_piper offer sound advice on this board almost every day (and this is the correct board for the thread, there are other FPN queries on here).

I think the OP should blame whichever high-handed idiot called the Police. Being blocked in happens on shared sites quite often - but IMHO the normal reaction would be to march over to the other traders and ask whose flippin' car it is and get them to move it!

Oh, and sebdangerfield, while you are here...as you are a legal professional, perhaps you could hang around on this board a bit? Could you join us and read up and advise on all the threads about unenforceable parking fines and the threatening letters which follow, misrepresenting motorists' true legal position? We need more posters here to deal with this escalating scam and stop newbies falling for it.

Anyway, maybe the OP will pop into the local cop-shop over the weekend and explain his confusion over getting a ticket in a private car park, and maybe they'll be nice to him and cancel it! Worth a try, as others have said.

hollie.weimeraner

sebdangerfield wrote: »

Hi Hollie, have you experience of this? Whats the basis of your advice?

Also, Crabman, I'm not sure the OP will get the best advise from the parking fines board as this is not a parking fine.

Hi

The basis of my experience is 20 years as a Police Officer and 10 in a Road Traffic Dept:D

IF the car park is indeed a private car park and as stated earlier the offender is totally within that place then the matter is entirely civil.

Quite recently I am aware of a case in Sheffield where someone was parking their car on someones driveway whilst they went to work (yes unbelievable I know) but police were powerless to deal as it is private.

There is an interesting discussion here (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=47187&hl=obstruction ) that seems to agree that Police have no powers on private land without the issue of a court order and that they were acting outside their powers. (this offence was in a Morrisons car park but does discuss private areas)

My advice would be to challenge the ticket with the issuing force and back it up with photographs of the car park. If possible get written confirmation from the landowner that the car park isprivate.

sebdangerfield

I'm often suprised at the amount of people on here who correct my spelling and then apologise, why? If you feel the need to correct to something why immediately apologise for it!? There really is no need, I take no offence. As I'm sure you can tell, English is not my first language, nor my second for that matter and why should a French guy advise English people on English law and not get the correct spelling! I apologise.

I do pop up on here every now and again but mainly stay on the other board as there seems to be a far higher proportion of criminal matters on there as opposed to civil ones which I'm less interested in on here. After all, most of the parking ones do tend to go the same way and thats why non-professionals can advise on them.

As far as I'm concerned this matter being one of a criminal nature would be better answered on the other board whilst it's being looked at by criminal lawyers. The questionable answers regarding this matter prove my point somewhat.

As I say, I do pop up on here now and then when I think I can advise. Most of the time that advise can be given by anyone with a remote interest in the matter and no legal skill or knowledge is required so there's little point of me adding the same.

Also, people who clearly do not understand the matter when some knowledge is required add some poor advice and are then thanked for it by other members. This, is not how knowledge of the matter should be shared and could prove to be very dangerous for the op taking said advise.

I agree Hollie, in that situation nobody is being stopped from entering the highway they are being stopped from entering private land i.e their drive. This differs greatly from stopping a bunch of people getting to the highway. The offence of obstructing the highway would not cover stopping someone getting onto their drive, as you know this is not the highway.

newfoundglory

I work with someone who answered police calls in call centre, and he said that people would sometimes call up about cars blocking their driveway preventing a car on the driveway from getting OFF the driveway Apparently, the police can and should deal with this.... however, if the car is blocking the driveway and preventing car from getting ONTO the drive (ie. nothing already on the drive), then the police will do nothing.

sebdangerfield

newfoundglory wrote: »

I work with someone who answered police calls in call centre, and he said that people would sometimes call up about cars blocking their driveway preventing a car on the driveway from getting OFF the driveway Apparently, the police can and should deal with this.... however, if the car is blocking the driveway and preventing car from getting ONTO the drive (ie. nothing already on the drive), then the police will do nothing.

My point exactly. Thankyou.

superbiggles

Hi everyone and thanks for the replies.

To clarify there is no barrier to the car park, there is a gate, but that is rarely locked, this is part of the problem. It is clearly marked as a private car park and that unauthorised parking will result in clamping, although this is never carried out as the centre can't be bothered with the hassle.

The property is owned by the business centre, the people are entering onto private property. If they cannot leave, that is then surely a matter for owner of the property? If someone drove onto your drive way and then you parked behind them, they have no legal right for you to move your car and let them back on the highway.

Here is some more information that I probably should have disclosed... once I parked my car I informed the receptionist who looked blankly and proceeded to do nothing to remove the offending vehicle, eg call in the clampers. She then later that day called the police after someone complained they couldn't get out at which point the ticket as issued. Needless to say I will be requesting the centre pay for the ticket.

The reiterate, this car park has two entrances, the other one is blocked daily by the centre staff.

peter_the_piper

In my, albeit non professional, opinion a trip to the copshop is called for. Be very humble and pleasant and you may be lucky, they may have done it as a slap on the wrist. If not then go to pepipoo.com and maybe the lawyer types(real ones) will be able to assist.