Starting to think we're in a real predicament.

Fire_Fox

Is your brother listed as a 'permitted occupant' rather than jointly and severally liable for the rent? Sounds like it and sounds like the council have made an error, they have accepted the LHA forms even if they are awaiting further information? Will your landlord put into writing about the permitted occupancy/ not liable for the rent/ minor scenario? Can you get a copy of your brothers passport or birth certificate? Maybe go to the CAB and see what they say?

Elkiemoo

So, how do we go about separating our affairs? I assume our current claim is best left as a joint claim since we should be entitled to 1 bed LHA as a couple. I was under the impression that if we move out we will have to start a new claim anyway, with our new address. We are looking to move out of Lewisham and closer to bf's family in Bromley, so it's another council, with same LHA rates.
As for JSA, which is also processing as joint, do we leave that until we move out too? I suppose it would confuse them to submit yet MORE forms about a change of circumstances, before they've processed the JSA1 and JSA3 forms b/f recently filled out.

My brother is simply listed as one of the tenants along with b/f and I. Though obviously never signed the agreement. He was never liable for rent... though I'm afraid the agents misinformed the LL and that is why he is listed as a tenant rather than 'permitted occupant' as you put it, Fire Fox. I do have a copy of his birth certificate (though I'm wary that the Council burst into flames at the sight of photocopies, and want originals only). I also have a copy of his award letter for EMA from his Welsh LEA, as proof of his current address. We were never even asked for the forms when we went to the council... just our IDs, NI cards, TA... that was all. We had in fact taken with us everything listed at the back of the application forms, but they didn't ask to see the rest. Then they sent out a form in the post... As for the LL writing to the council about my brother, I don't think he was ever aware that he was a minor. The rent was paid for, he had no other concerns.

Fire_Fox

Sounds like a case for either the Benefits board or the CAB to me, you need more advice than we are able to give. I'd still ask your landlord to confirm in writing that, as your brother is a minor and did not sign AST, he is a permitted occupant and not legally liable for any rent. Might work ... the whole thing is a pain, but it should be slightly less of a pain when you move!

You will be an expert at the end of this, maybe you should volunteer for the CAB? Something I am seriously considering, as I will be unemployed at the end of the week, and have all the joys of JSA and CTB applications to come!

Elkiemoo

Thanks, I will try him again with the permitted occupant jargon - he can't deny that my bro didn't sign anything!

I think you should, Fire Fox. You have been most helpful and thorough.

Thanks again!

Elkiemoo

This is our correspondence with the LL. We have been left with no other choice but to go to the council and refuse to leave until they sort it out.

Dear tenant,

The tenancy agreement that is in place cannot be changed, we are unable to add or take anyone off the agreement.

If the Council wish to write or email me, I am prepared to inform them that your brother was at the property.

Kind Regards,

LL.


Dear Mr LL,

I do not understand how this could be deemed as fraud by the council, if it is what they are suggesting we do. All they need to complete our claim is proof that my brother, who is a minor, was never liable for the rent. I was advised that he should have been listed as a permitted occupant from the start rather than a tenant. As you can see from our current tenancy agreement, he hasn't signed anything. I mentioned previously it is not necessary to produce a new tenancy agreement. It would be sufficient to fill out a Lanlord Statement, which we can send you.
We have a month (from 18th January) to submit all evidence supporting our claim, or the claim will be cancelled and any monies we have received will have to be returned to the council. If it comes to this we will be unable to make rent payments to the guarantor. Further to this, if our claim is successful, it will enable us to move out well within the end of the tenancy. We do not wish to be a nuisance if, for financial reasons, this becomes difficult. If our claim can be completed before we move out it will make the process of moving a lot easier.

If you do not wish to help us by filling out a Landlord Statement our housing benefit advisor at Lewisham Council has said she would be happy to contact you directly.

Regards,

Tenant


Hello Tenant,

Unfortunately, we are unable to adjust any tenancy agreement within the fixed period, this being the first year. We are clearly unable to issue another tenancy agreement to suit your application, as this could be deemed as fraud by the Council.

Apologies we are unable to assist you further with this matter. Your written notice expires on 6th March, when we will take possession of the property as we have new tenants moving in.

Kind Regards,

LL.


Dear Mr LL,

My partner and I have recently applied for benefits as we are both currently unemployed. We have already handed in our two months notice to you and should be moving out of the
property before 6th March this year. We hope that you can help us with our application. Please rest assured that we have already paid the full rent to you upfront and you will not be left
out of pocket.
Originally, when we moved into the property almost a year ago, my younger brother was living with us. He is a minor, but his name is on our tenancy agreement. We never informed you
when he moved out to live with his parents in Wales in September 2009, but in order to continue with our application for benefits we need a document to confirm that only my partner and
I live here, no one else. I have asked the Council if there is any way around this without having to contact you directly, but I have been left with no other choice. They will not accept any
proof I have of my brother's address after September 2009. I understand that this puts you in an awkward position as we are requesting you to confirm information that you were not aware of until now.
If you would like proof of my brother's address now, I would be more than happy to comply.
The Council need one of two things, either another tenancy agreement, which doesn't include my brother's name, or a Landlord statement with just mine and my partner's
name on it. I imagine it would be less hassle to complete a Landlord's statement, which is just a couple of sides of paper to be filled in by the Landlord, than produce another tenancy
agreement so far on in the contract. I can send you the Landlord's statement in the post, upon request, with a self-addressed envelope.
I am hoping you will be able to help us with this as it will certainly speed up the process of moving out once we are in receipt of any benefits we are entitled to. I understand that the
property has already been let to a new tenant, who is expecting to move in soon.

Please let us know how you can help.

Many thanks in advance and I apologise for any inconvenience or confusion

Tenant

We went to the CAB for advice today and were told just to persevere with everything until we have a final result with the housing benefits.
As for find a new house we've looked at two schemes we might be eligible for to help with the deposit. (The CAB lady seemed to think this wasn't an issue as we'd get our deposit back from our current flat - I severely doubt we'll get all of our deposit back BEFORE we move out...). We will need to go to council/s to be assessed next week.

Elkiemoo

Also, as regards our joint JSA claim, I still haven't received and entitlement letter or any payments. I finally got a straight answer out of them today. Despite explaining over and over again to our local job centre that we were making a joint claim, I have somehow managed to start my own... which isn't going to be processed as I'm down on B/F's as well. The only way my claim will ever be processed is if he cancels his... ALL we needed to do from the start was fill out a JSA3 to amend B/F's details and change of circumstances. JSA3 was indeed one of all the forms they threw at us but JCP HQ have not record of it...

Fire_Fox

What a pain! Your letters look good and very clear, I'd get the council LHA advisor to contact your landlord and see if they can get any sense out of him. Keep batting at it all, it's a complete nightmare getting benefits, but once you are set up it will be easier and it *should* all get backdated. Just keep thinking of the money which your are entitled to and thinking that you are hassling the old landlord so you will be able to have an easy relationship with your new landlord.

I've just claimed from Monday and am fully prepared for weeks or months of grief. I have savings which they are taking into consideration, but Monday being the first of the month money moved from a to b and from c to d, so £1K is 'lost' in the black hole between one bank and another. I just KNOW that is going to be questioned!