where will this end?

codwidow

Does no one see this as a member of staff who has previously suffered from mental illness before in a total state begging for time off as they are unwell and offering holiday instead of wanting to add to their sickness record ?

Would it be ok if she had chicken pox because you would be able to see that ?

I dont think this is a clear cut case of "ooh she pulled a sickie coz she couldnt get a holiday"

Any manager who has one than one brain cell would be able to recognise someone who is clearly not well and perhaps have a bit of human compassion, how many people do you know say this to their employer ? She must have been in a right state

To the Op - I hope this turns out to be a storm in a teacup for you and your family

tartanterra

codwidow wrote: »

Does no one see this as a member of staff who has previously suffered from mental illness before in a total state begging for time off as they are unwell and offering holiday instead of wanting to add to their sickness record ?

No.

They asked for holiday. Holiday was refused. Stated they would pull a sickie.

If they had been threatened with losing their job for just going sick, then that would be a different story.

But they didn't. They stated they were going to go sick after being refused time off to have a family holiday.

Just what any business doesn't need in the middle of a recession.

teabelly

If you're at breaking point you're at breaking point. If you need the time off and you're up against it money wise then you would want to take it as holiday first and foremost and hope that holiday was enough to relieve the pressure. When stressed you do not think straight or behave in the most rational manner. Having been there if you need to be away from work you need to be away from work and that's all you can see. If the workplace is causing the illness itself then you can function 'normally' while not at work. It isn't skiving, you are ill. It's like an allergen being in the workplace. If you're not exposed to it you're ok. As soon as you are you are unwell again. If you can't have that holiday and you know you need that time off then you have no other option than see your GP or just not turn up at all. Unless you have felt that desperation and fear that you're hanging onto your sanity by your fingernails you will never understand.

Most supermarkets are not exactly short on profits so the recession argument is nonsense. They make fortunes from treating their staff like dirt and doing the same to their suppliers. I have no sympathy for their economic arguments. They can afford to treat staff with respect and they can afford to have better staff cover over Christmas so long term staff can have more time with their families.

There is a whole heap of difference between someone with stress and mental problems needing time off sick after failing to get holiday they desperately needed and some petulant staff member not getting their own way.

pitkin2020

codwidow wrote: »

Does no one see this as a member of staff who has previously suffered from mental illness before in a total state begging for time off as they are unwell and offering holiday instead of wanting to add to their sickness record ?

Would it be ok if she had chicken pox because you would be able to see that ?

I dont think this is a clear cut case of "ooh she pulled a sickie coz she couldnt get a holiday"

Any manager who has one than one brain cell would be able to recognise someone who is clearly not well and perhaps have a bit of human compassion, how many people do you know say this to their employer ? She must have been in a right state

To the Op - I hope this turns out to be a storm in a teacup for you and your family

Most companies don't like staff to take holiday if they are sick is it mis-represents their sickness record. Yes I know some do but if it becomes frequent they aren't going to keep letting you take short notice holiday because you are unwell. It's also so managers can see if a pattern or trend is forming around the sickness periods, for example someone who works shift is sick every other monday morning, (early shift) and keeps taking holiday mixed in with a bit sick. If the employee is allowed to constantly take holiday its hard to see the pattern as its broken up with authorised absence, holiday.

As for pay, like already said most hand books will state sick pay is at the managers discrection, thats not to say the manager will make a decision him/her self, but OH may be called in to make assesment. Its rare for pay to be stopped due to the issues of being taken to a tribunal, but if the employer is in no doubt your pulling a fast one, i.e you claim bad back and he sees you himself shift 4 tonne of rubble on a building site you will get your pay stopped as you shouldn't be doing anything whilst on the sick that could hinder your speedy recovery. With stress its a little different as people deal it with differently you could decide to spend the day in the pub to "HELP" you recover if you want.

I think people need to realise the doctors note means jack !!!! in reality, yes it shows your employer some over worked doc has given you a reason for your absense but if you keep going to the docs every other week and getting signed off it wont protect you from being dismissed no matter how convinicing your sick note is. Too many people think "I got a docs note they can't do anything", all I can say is keep putting them into your employer and you will see what they can do about it!!

jazzys

thorsoak wrote: »

Your partner worked for a supermarket. It is pointed out to staff when they start - and is reiterated throughout the year - that holidays will not be allowed to be taken during the month of December. Fact.

Only partly correct i'm afraid, they had actually given one other lady time off to visit her son in america. And in that one act they have treated one employee differently from another.

I think a few of the posters to this thread are actually looking at it the wrong way.

forget the fact i was coming back to the uk, my ex was at breaking point and she needed time off. Her options were to ask for holidays or go on the sick.
she wanted to take it as holidays so that she didn't lose the first three days of pay.
Once the holidays were refused, she had no other option (as she was ill) but to go on the sick.

euronorris states in his reply that he believed she had alraedy had "quite a bit of time offf sick that year", i have no idea where he gets that info from as i have not said that at all and she had in fact had NO time off at all.

just to throw another little bit into the mixer, it now comes to light that she went to the doctors with backpain and stress. The doctor however, only put the backpain on her sick note. When quizzed by my ex about this, the doctor said he'd only put the backpain on as an act of discretion. knowing that most sufferers of stress prefer to keep it quiet.

She now has a letter from the doctor explaining everything, and she will hand it in to personnel today.

Thanks so far for all the replies

J

pitkin2020

teabelly wrote: »

If you're at breaking point you're at breaking point. If you need the time off and you're up against it money wise then you would want to take it as holiday first and foremost and hope that holiday was enough to relieve the pressure. So what do you do when your holiday allowance is used up......go sick I suspect
When stressed you do not think straight or behave in the most rational manner. Having been there if you need to be away from work you need to be away from work and that's all you can see. If the workplace is causing the illness itself then you can function 'normally' while not at work. It isn't skiving, you are ill. It's like an allergen being in the workplace. If you're not exposed to it you're ok. As soon as you are you are unwell again. The OP needs to express this to her managers so they can have an understanding of the problem and hopefully give the OP jobs that she may find less stressful, no employer wants people off sick if they can help so usually will do their best to accomodate someones needs as long as they are excessive.
If you can't have that holiday and you know you need that time off then you have no other option than see your GP or just not turn up at all. Unless you have felt that desperation and fear that you're hanging onto your sanity by your fingernails you will never understand.
You don't need a doctors note unless your off sick for more than 5 working days, only after that time do you need to present a sick note. Again people think by getting the sick note before the first 5 days some how gives them a get out of jail free card, when it doesn't.

Most supermarkets are not exactly short on profits so the recession argument is nonsense. They make fortunes from treating their staff like dirt and doing the same to their suppliers. I have no sympathy for their economic arguments. They can afford to treat staff with respect and they can afford to have better staff cover over Christmas so long term staff can have more time with their families.
Most supermarkets are businesses and there main goal is to make a profit, the shareholders want a bigger slice of the pie every year i'm afraid. Sickness does cost companies money if a trained member of staff is off sick it may require two untrained members to fill the void. Christmas periods are always stressful and everyone wants the time off, understandbly and maybe places like supermarkets that feel they have to open over this period should consider taking in extra relief staff to cover some holidays over the period.

There is a whole heap of difference between someone with stress and mental problems needing time off sick after failing to get holiday they desperately needed and some petulant staff member not getting their own way.
Its no different at all, what if someone coming down with flu was told the same thing, and acted in the same way as the OP and just went sick after being refused holiday. Stress or any illness doesn't give you the right to state if you don't get holiday you will just go sick and then expect no consequences to happen.

Few points

pitkin2020

jazzys wrote: »

Only partly correct i'm afraid, they had actually given one other lady time off to visit her son in america. And in that one act they have treated one employee differently from another.

I think a few of the posters to this thread are actually looking at it the wrong way.

forget the fact i was coming back to the uk, my ex was at breaking point and she needed time off. Her options were to ask for holidays or go on the sick.
she wanted to take it as holidays so that she didn't lose the first three days of pay.
Once the holidays were refused, she had no other option (as she was ill) but to go on the sick.

euronorris states in his reply that he believed she had alraedy had "quite a bit of time offf sick that year", i have no idea where he gets that info from as i have not said that at all and she had in fact had NO time off at all.

just to throw another little bit into the mixer, it now comes to light that she went to the doctors with backpain and stress. The doctor however, only put the backpain on her sick note. When quizzed by my ex about this, the doctor said he'd only put the backpain on as an act of discretion. knowing that most sufferers of stress prefer to keep it quiet.

She now has a letter from the doctor explaining everything, and she will hand it in to personnel today.

Thanks so far for all the replies

J

Either way you must see what she said has sparked this chain of events. Her best option would be to speak face to face with the manager and explain a little about the stress situation and work with the manager to see if there are roles within her current job that could be removed to help ease a little stress and make working life a little less stressful for her.

If this is her first sickness period then I don't think she has much of a problem, but due to the comments about taking sick if holiday was denied they have to investigate that. I'm sure when she explains her reason in person and in more detail they will take an understanding view, tell her not to make demands or threats about holiday/sickness and then tell her to get back to work. Simples

Scousebird_2

KimYeovil wrote: »

With her dismissal and a refusal of any benefits for 26 weeks. If there is any justice.

(P.S. She should also check a dictionary for the difference between "stress" and "guilt".)

That's actually incorrect and unfair-you can still get conts based JSA irrespectively. And even on income based as long as its not a common occurance, JSA will still be paid.

In this case though ESA is more appropriate as a breakdown or most psychological disorders take time to recover from!

To the OP-I really do feel for you and your partner. The stress of impending unemployment can put great strain on families and they don't often make it a quick process in deciding do they. There are wrongs and rights on both sides but the employer needs to be very careful how they deal with this on occupational health approaches. Your Partner is sufferring with long term illness and the stress will be exacerbating that. Also the employer has NO RIGHT to question a GP's opinion and by rights should not respond in such an informal manner. Your partner is under no obligation to expand on her illness other than to the letter of the sick note-if he forces her or demands further information she could claim constructive dismissal/bullying. I can't stand Managers who think thay are above the law in corporate business.

Whatever happenes, I hope your Partner gets better and gets through this xx

jazzys

Of course she has already spoken to her managers and the old management team knew the situation with my ex, however, a new broom or two came in. One had a big stick and wanted to make a name for himself and the other was a little more understanding and has since told her that if he'd known her medical background and the situation with her son, he would have done his best to make sure she had her holidays.

watch this space

J

seven-day-weekend

I have not read all the thread but just need to say this.

My son has always worked in retail. He has NEVER been able to book leave over Chriatmas. He knows that. We, his family, know that.

Your wife must also have known it. Why then did you all arrange this trip for over Christmas? Why didn't you do it for some other time ? You all must have kown she would not be able to book the time as leave.

If she had then become ill over Christmas, then that could just have been dealt with as sick leave. She could then have had her holiday leave and seen her family at some other time.

You're all to blame here really, for expecting a retail worker to be able to have Christmas off and making plans accordingly, when you all knew (or at least she did) that it would not be possible.