where will this end?

Uncertain

tigtag02 wrote: »

CSP is ALWAYS at the discretion of the management - regardless of what medical evidence the employee provides.

Sorry but no.....

CSP (if any) is a contractual right, usually subject to certain conditions being met. I have never seen a condition giving an unqualified person the right to make medical judgments that take precedence over a doctor's.

"The doctor says you are ill but some clerk in HR knows better so you are not getting any sick pay even though you are otherwise entitled to it"!

Come on! It would give a tribunal a laugh though!

tigtag02

Uncertain wrote: »

Sorry but no.....

CSP (if any) is a contractual right, usually subject to certain conditions being met. I have never seen a condition giving an unqualified person the right to make medical judgments that take precedence over a doctor's.

"The doctor says you are ill but some clerk in HR knows better so you are not getting any sick pay even though you are otherwise entitled to it"!

Come on! It would give a tribunal a laugh though!

I dont know where you are getting your information from but Company Sick Pay is NOT a contractual right and any compnay hand book will state that it is at managers discression.

Uncertain

tigtag02 wrote: »

I dont know where you are getting your information from but Company Sick Pay is NOT a contractual right and any compnay hand book will state that it is at managers discression.

It IS a contractual right IF it is part of your contract of employment. Agreed, an employer doesn't have to offer any CSP but if they have CONTRACTED to do so then they have to pay it - subject to any conditions in the contract.

I have personally never had or seen a contract that says it is paid at "managers discretion" but that is not to say that none have such a clause. Frequently there may be a qualifying period of service before being eligible. The number of weeks on full and / or half pay may well depend on length of employment. Almost certainly medical certificates will be required. However, these are all definite criteria and I can't imagine a clause saying (in effect) Joe Bloggs in HR will decide if you are ill not your doctor! But maybe yours has such a clause?

However, even then it would be open to challenge if this was not applied fairly. I fail to see how a manager making arbitrary medical judgments, contrary to qualified medical opinion could be held to be fair.

Zazen999

From E14

Remember a doctor’s statement is strong evidence
of incapacity and should usually be accepted as
conclusive unless there is more compelling evidence
to the contrary.

Uncertain

Zazen999 wrote: »

From E14

Remember a doctor’s statement is strong evidence
of incapacity and should usually be accepted as
conclusive unless there is more compelling evidence
to the contrary.

Quite.

It is hard to think of many situations where a firm could have "compelling evidence to the contrary", particularly when mental health is involved.

OK if Fred has a certificate saying he has a broken leg, but two work colleagues see him take the plaster cast off and play football then there may be a case but otherwise they are going to struggle!

Zazen999

Uncertain wrote: »

Quite.

It is hard to think of many situations where a firm could have "compelling evidence to the contrary", particularly when mental health is involved.

OK if Fred has a certificate saying he has a broken leg, but two work colleagues see him take the plaster cast off and play football then there may be a case but otherwise they are going to struggle!

Doctors are human too, and can easily be taken in when pushed for time.

They are NOT foolproof - with a broken leg there is an xray - with 'backache' and breakdown there is not.

Uncertain

Zazen999 wrote: »

Doctors are human too, and can easily be taken in when pushed for time.

They are NOT foolproof - with a broken leg there is an xray - with 'backache' and breakdown there is not.

Quite right.

But if I had to stake my life savings on a doctor's medical opinion or one from Jack or Jill in HR, I know which way I would go........

Premier_2

Zazen999 wrote: »

Doctors are human too, and can easily be taken in when pushed for time.

They are NOT foolproof - with a broken leg there is an xray - with 'backache' and breakdown there is not.

A manager simply deciding to go against the medical advice of a trained professional would be on very soggy ground.

It would probably be better for the company to employ the services of their own doctor and ask the sick employee to attend there for an assessment, if considered appropriate.

Uncertain

Premier wrote: »

It would probably be better for the company to employ the services of their own doctor and ask the sick employee to attend there for an assessment, if considered appropriate.

As said before....

This could tell them how the employee's health may be in the immediate future but no doctor can say for certain if she was or was not too ill to work a month ago.

Also, they cannot force her to see their doctor (although she would normally be best to agree).

"Their" doctor still has a legal duty to act in the best interest of the patient, not whoever is paying his fee or salary.

tartanterra

Zazen999 wrote: »

From E14

Remember a doctor’s statement is strong evidence
of incapacity and should usually be accepted as
conclusive unless there is more compelling evidence
to the contrary.

Like stating your going going to pull a sickie, because you're not getting your holiday during your employers busiest period, perhaps?:rolleyes: