where will this end?

stebiz

Uncertain wrote: »

The purpose of this forum is supposed to be to help people who find themselves in a difficult situation in regards to their employment.

Not to tell people how to get out of a sticky wicket because they told their employer 'if you don't give me my hols, I'll take time off sick'.

paulwf

OP, there have obviously been mistakes by you and your wife but dwelling on them isn't going to help you.

Get your wife to phone ACAS, or contact her union if she is in one or seek legal advice. Just focus on what should happen if someone is genuinely ill after jokingly saying they will be off ill.

There might be a way to meet a compromise, perhaps by agreeing not to get paid whilst off sick and taking a final written warning. You'd have to be careful though as you don't want it to come across as an admission she wasn't sick, so as above take professional advice first.

They are probably taking their time as they have to consult with their legal advisors at head office as they need to check what they are doing is legal. As she hasn't been suspended there is hope. Accept whatever they give her as long as it isn't dismissal as she only needs to hang on until June so it doesn't matter what is on her record.

jazzys

paulwf wrote: »

OP, there have obviously been mistakes by you and your wife but dwelling on them isn't going to help you.

What? how? Where? what mistakes have i made then?

Jazzys

jaffacakes82

Uncertain wrote: »

What the previous replies are forgetting is that this lady has been certified as sick by her doctor.

What you're forgetting is that the OP's ex verbally stated that she would 'go sick' if she wasn't given leave over Christmas. Anyone can go and get a sick note from their GP for stress, the Employer won't be impressed by the sick note (putting aside whether the OP's ex was really ill). Personal circumstances and the sick note is not what the Employers are looking at. An Employee SAID they would 'go sick' and they did. It's a Disciplinary matter.

It may not be what the OP wants to hear but it's how it is. It would be nice to say the Employers are absolutely barking mad and his ex had done nothing wrong, but that's not the case and the Disciplinary shows that.

My sister is a HR Manager and she has come across this type of situation quite a lot over the years and has some really silly stories. The most typical example is Employees whose family are abroad and they go to see them on holiday, then phone in on their last days leave saying they want to extend their holiday another 1/2 weeks. If they're told no, they then don't turn up for work, and when they do turn up 1/2 weeks later they say all sorts... spoke to someone who said they could have the holiday... their flight was cancelled and they couldn't get another for 1/2 weeks... they were sick... deny the phone call happened and say they thought their leave was for another 1/2 weeks... they get taken down the Disciplinary route.

Employers take these things very seriously, and whether true or not, it makes the Employee look as though they have little regard for their job.

jazzys wrote: »

It was a silly thing she said but it was a hollow threat that wouldn't have been carried out.

But it was carried out (in the Employers eyes).

Uncertain

The lady has been certified as sick. End of. The supermarket are not in a position to challenge that.

What they MIGHT be able to say is that the "threat" to go sick might in itself amount to a disciplinary matter.

However, given that the sick certificate was given for stress, there is a strong argument that she was suffering from this at the time of the "threat".

I really don't see this going far.

paulwf

jazzys wrote: »

What? how? Where? what mistakes have i made then?

Jazzys

Between yourself and your ex you arranged a holiday even though she had to work nights all during that period. This is what led to her going sick with stress.

jazzys

As i stated earlier, she was suffering stress at the time of the remark and has a medical record that backs up her problem. And i will reiterate what she actually meant was she knew she was on the brink of breaking down again so wanted to put the time she was going to be off as holidays rather than have it down on her record as sick.

As they refused to give her the holidays she really had no option but to take the sick route. She was an ill woman at breaking point. I find it hard to believe the employer could make the judgement that she wasn't actually sick. They sent her a letter witholding her sick pay and stating that they were doing it as they didn't believe her sickness was genuine. I still find it incredile a shop manager can make that judgement and completely discrediting a doctors opinion.

Jazzys

BligBlag

jazzys wrote: »

As i stated earlier, she was suffering stress at the time of the remark and has a medical record that backs up her problem. And i will reiterate what she actually meant was she knew she was on the brink of breaking down again so wanted to put the time she was going to be off as holidays rather than have it down on her record as sick.

As they refused to give her the holidays she really had no option but to take the sick route. She was an ill woman at breaking point. I find it hard to believe the employer could make the judgement that she wasn't actually sick. They sent her a letter witholding her sick pay and stating that they were doing it as they didn't believe her sickness was genuine. I still find it incredile a shop manager can make that judgement and completely discrediting a doctors opinion.

Jazzys

You seem to be changing your story now.

So she didn't want Xmas off to see her family, she knew she would be feeling ill at Xmas and therefore was being kind in offering to take it as holiday instead of sick?

Hmm all sounds very fishy to me. Nobody can predict the exact dates they will be ill, and the fact it was Xmas just makes it all very odd. OP you need to stop moaning about the Employers. It all comes down to the incident in which she stated if she wasn't granted leave she would call in sick. You can't do that.

andygb

jazzys wrote: »

What? how? Where? what mistakes have i made then?

Jazzys

Why did you book the flights before holiday leave was organised?
Most employers only allow their employees to take two weeks maximum.
Christmas is the busiest time for retailers, and the ban on taking holidays applies to ALL staff, for the very obvious reason that any exceptions cause a lot of trouble amongst the rest of the workforce.
Your ex partner was refused leave, threatened to go sick, and then actually went sick - coincidence!:rolleyes:
Whether or not she genuinely has stress (everyone has some kind of stress nowadays, it is the climate we live in), she has, in the eyes of the employer, deliberately gone against the company, and let down her fellow workers, who have had to work harder because of her.
She is not a team player, and should not work in that environment.

jazzys

BligBlag wrote: »

I feel for you mate but IMO I think the she was actually sick statment is porkies

I find that remark deeply offensive actually. Your opinion is completely incorrect.
would i be wasting my time on here if i knew it was all a load of lies designed to get her off work over xmas.

she was sick, she knew it and the doctor knew it. And most of her colleagues at work knew it and ofered to cover her shifts. It was a new manager that didn't know her background that came in with a big stick and made the decision even though, as i say all her workmates offered to cover her workload