We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
Faulty Tefal Pan Set from Debenhams under 1 year guarantee (Stupidly long post sorry)
Requiem
Posts: 117 Forumite
Hi there,
I'm hoping someone will be able to clarify a few things and give me some advice. Sorry for the ridiculously long post but I've had a real hassle with Debenhams and need to put it all down!
We bought a tefal pan set last year in the Debenhams sale (January 09). By November 09 the handles have become loose on all pans. We've had a look at the pans to tighten the screws, only to find that the screws are rusted over and worn away.
The pan set in question originally cost £150+, but after it dropping to the sale price of less than £90, plus online discount codes, we only paid £60 for the set. (I can't remember the exact figures and unfortunately none of this is shown on the invoice we have, no discount figures, only the £60 cost, though we do still have both that invoice and the guarantee booklet). It was also advertised as non-stick, dishwasher safe with a 25 year guarantee on non-stick coating and 1 year guarantee on the rest of the pan.
We've looked after the pans well, used them in the dishwasher but always removed them after the cycle and made sure they were dried off. Naturally, we contacted Debenhams to arrange a replacement/exchange.
This is where the fun started! I've written this in a rough timeline, as I spoke to so many people and got fobbed off so many times that I honestly can't even remember it all. Disclaimer: Timeline may not be entirely accurate, I noted it all down at the time but need to dig out the notes! (Worth noting here that between all the phone calls back and forth on the first day, I was one the phone for over 4 hours with the different stores + customer services!)
Sales Assistant in Store #1 told me, "Sure thing, bring them in for a replacement.". I asked if he could check that they have a suitable replacement in stock before coming into town. He responded, "we only have x/y/z in stock which don't have the same features/branding/guarantees/amount of pans, you should try Store #2."
Sales Assistant in Store #2 told me, "Yep we can do an exchange, just bring them into the store and pick something out and we'll do a straight swap." Again I asked to check for suitable replacements in stock and was told "yes but both are £100-£120 more expensive and therefore you would have to pay the difference, or you can switch for a cheaper lower quality brand for a straight exchange." I explained that they were within the guarantee and I wanted a like-for-like exchange, not to be penalised for buying them in the sale - after all, they were discounted in the sale but not because of a fault!
I then went back to Store #1 and explained that the only like-for-like exchange they would do would cost me more than I paid in the first place. I mentioned a pan set I'd seen on the website which was Tefal, non-stick and had the same amount/types of pans as the set I'd like to replace. He checked and they had it in stock, but due to the price difference said he was unauthorised to do the exchange. He also mentioned that for their exchanges they need to get an exchange credit note from Tefal which basically says that Tefal will honour the guarantee and replacement. SA#1 umm'd and ahh'd and told me to call back to speak to his supervisor tomorrow because he is generally "a bit more flexible" (his words) and that he would arrange an exchange with no problem (he also said "the people who are in today will not help you"!).
At this point I was getting a little frustrated with being told I could have a like-for-like exchange only for them to refuse it based on the fact that the pan sets they had in stock were not as heavily reduced as the one I bought online. I then called the online section of customer services to see if they could sort out an exchange, as it was initially bought online.
Online CS told me that any exchanges have to be done in store but to contact my local store and they would sort something out, alternatively, they suggested contacting Tefal direct as "Tefal will also be able to give you an exchange under the terms of the guarantee".
I contacted Tefal immediately, who after asking me questions about how we look after and use the pans, told me that the pans should not have rusted in this way and that it is within my rights for Debenhams to exchange. They also said that as per SOGA terms, my contract is with Debenhams, not with Tefal, and it is Debenhams responsibility to replace the set. I asked if there was any way they could contact Debenhams to authorise any exchange or even to authorise the "Tefal credit note" they required, but was told they they did not have the power to do so.
I contacted Store #1 again the next day and spoke to the supervisor. He informed me that he would not, in fact, be able to give me an exchange, but that the pans would need to be left with them for anything up to two months, while they waited for a Tefal representative to examine them in store. I explained that we didn't have any other pans to cook with and that we needed to sort out an exchange asap as it was dangerous cooking with such loose handles and rusty screws. Basically received the response of "tough".
Called OnlineCS again and went through to the complaints department. Explained the situation to a lovely gentleman who said it was absolutely ridiculous and complimented me on staying so polite and calm with everyone! He then put me straight through to the "Customer Resolutions" team, where (he said) the "more serious" complaints are escalated to
Spoke to a nice lady there who also agreed that the service was ridiculous, took down contact info and said she'd get in touch with the stores herself to get an exchange sorted out.
Called back the next day as I hadn't heard from her. Went through to the complaints department again and asked to be forwarded to the Customer Resolutions team. I was then told that there is no such team! I explained that I have a name of an employee I spoke to and a specific reference number in relation to my call/complaint, and was told that they have no way to search by name or reference number! (What's the point in having them then?!). I literally had to argue with the guy for ten minutes that they did in fact have a customer resolutions team, that I had spoken to them and that I'm not crazy. Eventually he spoke to his manager and finally put me through to the right department! Spoke to the same lady as the day before, she apologised that she hadn't got back to me yet but said she'd been in contact with the store and that the supervisor there had said he couldn't avoid the whole Tefal-Representative hassle, but that the representative would be there that week rather than "up to a month or two", and also that we'd only have to leave one pan with them.
Called the store straight after to check which time they were open until (31st Dec), and was told 5pm. I politely reminded them that it was New Year's Eve and had them double check the hours and they confirmed. Sent OH walking up to town with the pans in all the ice and snow! He got to the doors at 4.43pm where he was told that he wouldn't be let in! I called up the home department and spoke to another person and explained that I'd called up to check the opening times in advance and that my OH was stood outside in the cold wanting to drop a pan off. After keeping me on hold on and off for 10 mins they then tell me that they can't let him in and that security has closed the doors early on order of the duty manager... told to come back tomorrow.
OH went back up on the 1st to drop the pan off. We were told we'd be contacted by the 8th. Didn't hear anything. Called on the weekend, "Tefal Rep hasn't turned up, cancelled her appointments".
Finally got a call back today and was told that the rep has now looked at the pans and determined that the fault is 'natural wear and tear' caused by the dishwasher(!) and that they would therefore not be exchanging, refunding or anything! I asked on the phone if the rep even realised that they are advertised as dishwasher safe with a 1 year guarantee and was told "well they are a tefal rep so I assume so". This is after I'd already been told on the phone by Tefal that the pans should not have worn in this way and that I am entitled to an exchange.
So... any ideas on what my next step would be? (Sorry for the long post
)
I'm hoping someone will be able to clarify a few things and give me some advice. Sorry for the ridiculously long post but I've had a real hassle with Debenhams and need to put it all down!
We bought a tefal pan set last year in the Debenhams sale (January 09). By November 09 the handles have become loose on all pans. We've had a look at the pans to tighten the screws, only to find that the screws are rusted over and worn away.
The pan set in question originally cost £150+, but after it dropping to the sale price of less than £90, plus online discount codes, we only paid £60 for the set. (I can't remember the exact figures and unfortunately none of this is shown on the invoice we have, no discount figures, only the £60 cost, though we do still have both that invoice and the guarantee booklet). It was also advertised as non-stick, dishwasher safe with a 25 year guarantee on non-stick coating and 1 year guarantee on the rest of the pan.
We've looked after the pans well, used them in the dishwasher but always removed them after the cycle and made sure they were dried off. Naturally, we contacted Debenhams to arrange a replacement/exchange.
This is where the fun started! I've written this in a rough timeline, as I spoke to so many people and got fobbed off so many times that I honestly can't even remember it all. Disclaimer: Timeline may not be entirely accurate, I noted it all down at the time but need to dig out the notes! (Worth noting here that between all the phone calls back and forth on the first day, I was one the phone for over 4 hours with the different stores + customer services!)
Sales Assistant in Store #1 told me, "Sure thing, bring them in for a replacement.". I asked if he could check that they have a suitable replacement in stock before coming into town. He responded, "we only have x/y/z in stock which don't have the same features/branding/guarantees/amount of pans, you should try Store #2."
Sales Assistant in Store #2 told me, "Yep we can do an exchange, just bring them into the store and pick something out and we'll do a straight swap." Again I asked to check for suitable replacements in stock and was told "yes but both are £100-£120 more expensive and therefore you would have to pay the difference, or you can switch for a cheaper lower quality brand for a straight exchange." I explained that they were within the guarantee and I wanted a like-for-like exchange, not to be penalised for buying them in the sale - after all, they were discounted in the sale but not because of a fault!
I then went back to Store #1 and explained that the only like-for-like exchange they would do would cost me more than I paid in the first place. I mentioned a pan set I'd seen on the website which was Tefal, non-stick and had the same amount/types of pans as the set I'd like to replace. He checked and they had it in stock, but due to the price difference said he was unauthorised to do the exchange. He also mentioned that for their exchanges they need to get an exchange credit note from Tefal which basically says that Tefal will honour the guarantee and replacement. SA#1 umm'd and ahh'd and told me to call back to speak to his supervisor tomorrow because he is generally "a bit more flexible" (his words) and that he would arrange an exchange with no problem (he also said "the people who are in today will not help you"!).
At this point I was getting a little frustrated with being told I could have a like-for-like exchange only for them to refuse it based on the fact that the pan sets they had in stock were not as heavily reduced as the one I bought online. I then called the online section of customer services to see if they could sort out an exchange, as it was initially bought online.
Online CS told me that any exchanges have to be done in store but to contact my local store and they would sort something out, alternatively, they suggested contacting Tefal direct as "Tefal will also be able to give you an exchange under the terms of the guarantee".
I contacted Tefal immediately, who after asking me questions about how we look after and use the pans, told me that the pans should not have rusted in this way and that it is within my rights for Debenhams to exchange. They also said that as per SOGA terms, my contract is with Debenhams, not with Tefal, and it is Debenhams responsibility to replace the set. I asked if there was any way they could contact Debenhams to authorise any exchange or even to authorise the "Tefal credit note" they required, but was told they they did not have the power to do so.
I contacted Store #1 again the next day and spoke to the supervisor. He informed me that he would not, in fact, be able to give me an exchange, but that the pans would need to be left with them for anything up to two months, while they waited for a Tefal representative to examine them in store. I explained that we didn't have any other pans to cook with and that we needed to sort out an exchange asap as it was dangerous cooking with such loose handles and rusty screws. Basically received the response of "tough".
Called OnlineCS again and went through to the complaints department. Explained the situation to a lovely gentleman who said it was absolutely ridiculous and complimented me on staying so polite and calm with everyone! He then put me straight through to the "Customer Resolutions" team, where (he said) the "more serious" complaints are escalated to
Spoke to a nice lady there who also agreed that the service was ridiculous, took down contact info and said she'd get in touch with the stores herself to get an exchange sorted out.
Called back the next day as I hadn't heard from her. Went through to the complaints department again and asked to be forwarded to the Customer Resolutions team. I was then told that there is no such team! I explained that I have a name of an employee I spoke to and a specific reference number in relation to my call/complaint, and was told that they have no way to search by name or reference number! (What's the point in having them then?!). I literally had to argue with the guy for ten minutes that they did in fact have a customer resolutions team, that I had spoken to them and that I'm not crazy. Eventually he spoke to his manager and finally put me through to the right department! Spoke to the same lady as the day before, she apologised that she hadn't got back to me yet but said she'd been in contact with the store and that the supervisor there had said he couldn't avoid the whole Tefal-Representative hassle, but that the representative would be there that week rather than "up to a month or two", and also that we'd only have to leave one pan with them.
Called the store straight after to check which time they were open until (31st Dec), and was told 5pm. I politely reminded them that it was New Year's Eve and had them double check the hours and they confirmed. Sent OH walking up to town with the pans in all the ice and snow! He got to the doors at 4.43pm where he was told that he wouldn't be let in! I called up the home department and spoke to another person and explained that I'd called up to check the opening times in advance and that my OH was stood outside in the cold wanting to drop a pan off. After keeping me on hold on and off for 10 mins they then tell me that they can't let him in and that security has closed the doors early on order of the duty manager... told to come back tomorrow.
OH went back up on the 1st to drop the pan off. We were told we'd be contacted by the 8th. Didn't hear anything. Called on the weekend, "Tefal Rep hasn't turned up, cancelled her appointments".
Finally got a call back today and was told that the rep has now looked at the pans and determined that the fault is 'natural wear and tear' caused by the dishwasher(!) and that they would therefore not be exchanging, refunding or anything! I asked on the phone if the rep even realised that they are advertised as dishwasher safe with a 1 year guarantee and was told "well they are a tefal rep so I assume so". This is after I'd already been told on the phone by Tefal that the pans should not have worn in this way and that I am entitled to an exchange.
So... any ideas on what my next step would be? (Sorry for the long post
) 0
Comments
-
They would have given you a refund,I presume?
I would make an appointment and speak to the store manager,don't bother with supervisors.See what the manager will offer you.
It does occur to that £60 are probably all they are worth from what you are saying,so why not just take the money.0 -
They would have given you a refund,I presume?
I would make an appointment and speak to the store manager,don't bother with supervisors.See what the manager will offer you.
I was told at the beginning I could have a refund instead of an exchange, but that was from the Sales Assistants (the same ones who intially said I'd be able to get a like-for-like exchange). I pushed for an exchange because I (initially) didn't want to end up with a sub-par set and effectively get penalised for buying something at sale price.
Since one of the supervisors got back to me today, she said that they would do nothing (no refund or exchange).0 -
Update: OH spoke to Debenhams who have said that Tefal will be in touch with us "to explain why they will not exchange or refund" and have suggested we "argue our case" to them instead.
Afaik, under SOGA our contract is with Debenhams and not Tefal and it is therefore their responsibility? 0 -
If you are claiming through the warranty then its Tefals responsibility.
If you are claiming through SOGA then you are right to go through the retailer. Claiming under SOGA may require you to get a independent report done (not to sure who would do one for pans).
Remember the SOGA and warranty are two different things.0 -
If you are claiming through the warranty then its Tefals responsibility.
If you are claiming through SOGA then you are right to go through the retailer. Claiming under SOGA may require you to get a independent report done (not to sure who would do one for pans).
Remember the SOGA and warranty are two different things.
Thanks for that
When I spoke to Tefal they said that although they offer a 1 year guarantee it is ultimately the retailers responsibility to adhere to that guarantee, and in the next breath quoted SOGA at me about my contract being with the retailer, so I have no idea what sort of arrangement the two companies have with eachother.
Bearing that in mind, what are my rights with Debenhams when the pans are clearly faulty?0 -
Your only entitled to a partial refund of what you paid legally.0
-
Anihilator wrote: »Your only entitled to a partial refund of what you paid legally.
Is that irrespective of the 1 year guarantee they offer and based on SOGA only?0 -
Is that irrespective of the 1 year guarantee they offer and based on SOGA only?
Yes.
The guarentee is seperate from the SOGA
The guarentee will likely be with Tefal and detailed in the boxes etc. Its likely if you comply with this Tefal will send replacements
The SOGA after 6 months firstly means you have to prove its not durable/fit for the purposes, secondly you are entitled to a repair (not possible), replacement (not possible) or refund - partial if used at merchants choice. They are well within their rights to say pans should last 3 years, you have had them a year hence are allowed a third back.
If you have mistreated them in any way you may as well throw them in the bin now.0 -
Anihilator wrote: »Yes.
The guarentee is seperate from the SOGA
The guarentee will likely be with Tefal and detailed in the boxes etc. Its likely if you comply with this Tefal will send replacements
The SOGA after 6 months firstly means you have to prove its not durable/fit for the purposes, secondly you are entitled to a repair (not possible), replacement (not possible) or refund - partial if used at merchants choice. They are well within their rights to say pans should last 3 years, you have had them a year hence are allowed a third back.
If you have mistreated them in any way you may as well throw them in the bin now.
They have not been mistreated in any way as mentioned in the OP. The Tefal rep who went to Debenhams claims its 'natural wear and tear' caused by the dishwasher, though they are advertised as dishwasher safe (and IMO should not be falling apart within a year).
The two or three times I've spoken to Tefal they keep telling me that I claim on the guarantee through Debenhams not through themselves. They are adamant about this, that Debenhams are responsible for the 1 year guarantee. (Which seems odd, expecting a retailer to carry like-for-like stock 1 year later).0 -
They have not been mistreated in any way as mentioned in the OP. The Tefal rep who went to Debenhams claims its 'natural wear and tear' caused by the dishwasher, though they are advertised as dishwasher safe (and IMO should not be falling apart within a year).
The two or three times I've spoken to Tefal they keep telling me that I claim on the guarantee through Debenhams not through themselves. They are adamant about this, that Debenhams are responsible for the 1 year guarantee. (Which seems odd, expecting a retailer to carry like-for-like stock 1 year later).
There are guidelines for dishwasher use. Did you as described put a layer of oil over them each time?
Secondly the guarentee is with a Tefal authorised agent. Tbh you cant expect debenhams to honour a warranty when Tefal have told them it isnt a warranty issue
That takes you onto the SOGA
Tbh I would suggest you are being offered the £60 and should accept this. You arent entitled to a free upgrade.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 349.8K Banking & Borrowing
- 252.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453K Spending & Discounts
- 242.8K Work, Benefits & Business
- 619.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.4K Life & Family
- 255.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards