new boiler required

Canucklehead

buglawton wrote: »

On the page that jack_pott linked to above it says "Condensing boilers are compulsory under the Building Regulations in most situations"

True of false?

Good afternoon: see here.

HTH

Canucklehead

buglawton

Looks like I'm going to have to have my replacement boiler parts for ancient resident boiler hand-crafted in future to avoid having technological overkill where the maintenance costs start to equal the fuel costs.

This also must mean that non-condensing boilers are hardly avail any more even if you wanted one?

buglawton

Further research shows: Condensing boilers are not a legal requirement. Rather, an efficiency rating of better than 86% is. And there are no such non-condensing boilers, the best they can offer is 82%.

Interesting to see that we have been railroaded into condensing technology for a 4% margin - wonder why similar did not happen with car engines. If we were on a similar law with car engines we'd all be forced to buy small diesel or tiny petrol vehicles.

Cardew

buglawton wrote: »

Further research shows: Condensing boilers are not a legal requirement. Rather, an efficiency rating of better than 86% is. And there are no such non-condensing boilers, the best they can offer is 82%.

Interesting to see that we have been railroaded into condensing technology for a 4% margin - wonder why similar did not happen with car engines. If we were on a similar law with car engines we'd all be forced to buy small diesel or tiny petrol vehicles.

It is the condensing technology that makes new boilers so expensive to repair.

There are scores of posts on MSE from those of us with boilers over 20 years old that rarely if ever go wrong.

There are equally scores of posts from people with newish condensing boilers who have had hugely expensive repairs - often electronic board replacement being required at the cost of £hundreds.

Plenty of evidence to suggest that the design life of condensing boilers is 10 years if you are lucky. Most guarantees are for 2 years. A few for 5 years provided you pay each year for expensive servicing.

Take the average gas consumer spending £700pa on gas. He will be extremely lucky if he saves 25% even if he has a really ancient boiler. So he might save £175 pa.


You will do well to get a boiler fitted for under £2000. That invested long term at even 5% will produce £80 a year after tax(more if compounded) so your net saving will be less than £100 a year.

Only a City banker could not understand those economics;)

So we are forced into buying complicated equipment, expensive to repair and with a limited life and that's progress?

buglawton

According to http://www.miketheboilerman.com/newboilercost.htm there is no such thing as a newly fitted £2000 boiler today in the UK, only a £4000 one, and I believe this.

This is ironic: I was considering changing my ancient, probably 65% efficient boiler for a new one of 80% with a budget of say £1500. Having done the research inspired by this thread, I am now committed to nursing the old 65% boiler along for a very long time to come!

Other cons of condensing boilers appear to be:

- Lower water temperature. How much lower I am not sure, but can they satisfactorily heat up the house's hot water via pipes run thru immersion tank like the old boiler does? Feedback from MSE'ers with experience of these new boilers please!

- Condensing boilers are inefficient if you turn the stat up & down much (like we do now when going out) and only work optimally when there is an outdoor temp sensor (I guess so it can sense how fast to heat up at start of day).

Cardew

buglawton wrote: »

According to http://www.miketheboilerman.com/newboilercost.htm there is no such thing as a newly fitted £2000 boiler today in the UK, only a £4000 one, and I believe this.

This is ironic: I was considering changing my ancient, probably 65% efficient boiler for a new one of 80% with a budget of say £1500. Having done the research inspired by this thread, I am now committed to nursing the old 65% boiler along for a very long time to come!

Join the clan!! This is a quote from the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005...s.jobsandmoney

Quote:
But critics argue the switchover is unlikely to be plain sailing. The new systems cost upwards of £2,500 to buy and install - £500 more on average than conventional boilers. And if the many letters from Jobs & Money readers and heating engineers are anything to go by, the boilers come with a hidden surcharge, so high that it can wipe out all the gains for the homeowner and the environment.
Critics argue that condenser boilers malfunction easily and can cost hundreds of pounds a year to maintain. Many survive only half as long as their traditional counterparts. They are technically complex, with many more things that can go wrong than traditional boilers. It can add up to nightmarish bills.
One major independent firm of plumbers said that over the past three to four years it has made thousands of call-outs to mend condensing boilers, and that the greenhouse gas emissions from its vans were probably greater than the savings made by the shift to eco-conscious boilers.

Other cons of condensing boilers appear to be:

- Lower water temperature. How much lower I am not sure, but can they satisfactorily heat up the house's hot water via pipes run thru immersion tank like the old boiler does? Feedback from MSE'ers with experience of these new boilers please!

- Condensing boilers are inefficient if you turn the stat up & down much (like we do now when going out) and only work optimally when there is an outdoor temp sensor (I guess so it can sense how fast to heat up at start of day).

I think there is a low water temperature problem with Combi boilers, but not condensing boilers.

I really would like to know the real efficiency of these A rated boilers(that have a maximum efficiency quoted as 90+%) during general use. I have read several reports along these lines:

When installed in real houses, the performance of condensing boilers is typically 4-5% lower than in laboratory tests by groups such as SEDBUK

Or:

The RoyalInstitution of Chartered Surveyors stated recently :

The average cost of installing one of these modern boilers is £1,720, but saves on average just £95 off people's gas bills." See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...erts-warn.html

buglawton

Nature abhors a vacuum and Mike the Boilerman (link above) seems to have single handedly filled the empty UK knowledge space on boiler related projects & issues!

sandhu40

Andy_WSM wrote: »

Makes a mockery of the scrappage scheme doesn't it? It makes no environmental sense to rip out a good working boiler "to save the planet" or a few quid a month in gas.

I think they do this because if the boiler is not working it will either be replaced or fixed. A G-rated boiler does not have to be replaced and its just an incentive for the householder to reduce bills and emissions.

Biggles

waveneygnome wrote: »

I am really, really struggling to get any local quotes. IO have now contacted 7 yes....7 local independents. I have had only 1 person round, who quoted £3450 and was going to put it in writing....but two phone calls and two weeks later.........still hasn't.

What am I doing wrong?

We found this problem when we first moved here years ago, and called it 'The Suffolk Disease'; we'd never had any problem getting people to quote where we were before. It's not just heating, it's building, gas, electrical, anything really.

Judging from your username, this could be the problem!

buglawton

er..., no, no the BERKSHIRE disease