Forcing sale of shared ownership property

Welsh_Totster

My mother and I inherited my grandmothers house 5 years ago when she died. Its taken 4 1/2 years to sort the will/probate/trust out (long story) Anyway the house is now registered to me and my mother as tenants in common 50/50.

My mother lives in the house with her husband as she looked after my gran in her dying months, she gave up a housing association rented house to live with gran to look after her.

We are in agreement that the house needs to be sold to pay the solicitors fees at the very least, but my mother has to move out first. She is disabled and claims the benefits she needs to live and as she has just turned 60 now gets a pension. She says she has been looking for a private rental place (she is on the council and housing association list but she tells me they have nothing for her) but nothing seems to have materialised yet. She is also rather terrible with money, and I dont think her credit rating is up to much.

Ive been told I cant get a mortgage on my half on my own to release some funds as she would have to be on the mortgage too, I doubt that because of her poor credit history the bank would even lend to her so thats impossible.

The only way to get our money out of it it to sell.

I think she is stalling as she is living there rent free in a big 5 bed townhouse that has had no maintenance done in 5 years (as she cant afford it). Im about to move house myself and could really do with the proceeds of the sale of the inherited house to pay a chunk off our new mortgage and do some minor rennovations to the new house.

Is there anyway I can speed things up to force the sale of the property? Its prime for auction to a developer that could easily make 2 huge flats out of it. Id like it to be auctioned ideally as its quicker.

So, does anyone have any advice out there that could help me on my way to getting the house sold and getting out the money thats tied up in a property owned by a mother and daughter?

Many thanks!:D

Jowo_2

Sorry, sounds like you might need advise from a housing solicitor on this unless other forum members can give you advice. The landlordzone private rental forum has members that are housing solicitors.

It could actually be the case that the local council and housing association regards your mother as a low priority for assistance - she currently lives in a property she owns and doesn't have any demonstrable housing need.

Have you thought about ringing round the social landlords with her to explain her future housing need caused by the need to sell the jointly owned property and to double check her status/priority with them because of her disability?

This will help you to understand if putting it up for sale actually improves her priority for housing because it makes her vulnerable to homelessness or whether they regard this action as making herself intentionally homeless. It will at least clarify if there's any chance of your mother going into social housing to know whether or not to focus your efforts on private rental. You could perhaps run the situation past Shelter and CAB. No point in her waiting to be allocated social housing if there's little or no chance of it.

Will she be entitled to Local Housing Allowance (housing benefit) at the next rental property or will the lump sum she receives from the sale prevent her entitlement to this means tested benefit? Could her knowledge that she will have to pay her rent out of her future savings be a reason why she's reluctant to leave? What kind of sum would she get?

Have you thought of accompanying her to letting agents to select properties to view or offering to phone adverts with her in order to encourage her into onward accommodation? Her attitude, any resistance to this support, will demonstrate to you her reluctance to move out. She might fear the change that comes from this big move at her age.

Welsh_Totster

Thanks for the reply! My mum is just 60 so not an old codger by far and my stepdad is 50, she will probably gain around £60-70k from the sale of the house and knows that her housing benefit will go as she will have a pot of money to pay her own way (for the first time in her life). She says she has been looking at private rentals as she knows that she will have to pay but would prefer social housing as the local housing association does have bungalows that are disabled friendly.

Id love to be able to have the time to go with her to find somwhere, but I work full time and live 75 miles away from her, its not easy. I know she is dragging her feet as she has a nice house to live in rent free at the moment, who would want to move out of that situation. However, the 5 years of solicitors fees will need paying at some time and it has to be sold to pay that bill off if nothing else.

Maybe I do need to be more proactive and maybe get a few EAs around to value the place, and sit her down to say that the house has to sell soon and as soon as it does she can move into a nice rental place with no worry of upkeep.

Thanks again for replying.

Jowo_2

Ok, but she's not getting housing benefit at the moment, though surely, is she? HB is not paid to home owners...Home owners with a mortage are entitled to apply for some kind of mortgage interest relief. If the property is owned outright then I can't see where there is any rent due and therefore why there would be any requirement to request HB....Perhaps its just how you've worded the reference to HB.

To be honest, I wonder whether you shouldn't take a day or two off to come through and visit her on the day the EAs are scheduled to come through to undertake a valuation, offer to help her phone the local council and housing associations to see if she would stand any chance of securing social housing when the house is put up for sale, offer to escort her to letting agents to view properties together (including their bungalows). Research about private landlord's obligation to follow disability laws - perhaps a landlord must undertake adaptions or perhaps a landlord would be willing to pay the cost to adapt if he's going to get a long term tenant.

Looks like leaving it solely in her own hands has led to apathy and stasis. That way, by being hands on and monitoring her progress directly, you can detect if she's actively sabotaging the sale to stay rent free where she is and then know whether to contact a solictor to see how you can force the sale, though very few people will want to evict their own mum so it has to be a last resort.

The benefits forum of MSE often has posts on it where claimants who receive a lump sum are aghast that it impacts their means tested benefits, some even ask how they can hide or squander it in order to continue claiming.

Don't under estimate her attachment to them or her fear of spending her own money for the first time as she's clearly a long-term claimant. That sum that she nets, she could resent having to pay for her own accommodation from it over the next 8 years or so depending on how quickly the rent on her next property exhausts it.

Welsh_Totster

Jowo, every point you make is a valid one. When she was in social housing before moving into my grans she was claiming HB, she doesnt get that now as she isnt paying me rent on my half of the property and obviously she own the other half.

I fully intend to be there when we get EAs in to do valuations etc. My mother has always been very proactive about stuff when she needs to be but is dragging her heels on this one for sure. She has asked me to officially evict her but surely I cant do that as she owns half the property, and she is paying me no rent, so no contract in place to be able to evict her from?!

Its a messy situation for sure.

I think my next step is to sit down with her and have a good chat about it all instead of skirting around things. Set things in motion by sorting out some EA valuations then putting the house on the market. She knows it has to be done but understandably is reluctant. Its been our family home for well over 60 years. Times change and Ive told her once she has the money in her hand she can do what she pleases with it, if she wants to blow the lot on a round thr world trip then thats up to her!

However I do think youre right and she does resent the thought of having to pay her own way for once. She even asked me to keep the money in my bank account and give her what she wants when she wants it. I refused point blank as its fraudulent and as a Civil Servant Im not putting my job at risk. So youre spot on with that one!

Thanks again, youve been really helpful.:beer:

Jowo_2

Welsh_Totster wrote: »

She has asked me to officially evict her but surely I cant do that as she owns half the property, and she is paying me no rent so no contract in place to be aqble to evict her from?!

Blimey, she's starting to sound pretty manipulative to me now.

By the sounds of it, she's hoping to be able to be housed as a priority by presenting herself to the local council as being in housing need because she's being evicted.

Many landlord forums have threads where tenants trying to get their landlords to serve them notice in order to increase their chances of securing social housing since not having anywhere to go in the next 28 days automatically makes a person a priority for assistance.

However, as you've noted, you are not her landlord and therefore it doesn't apply. If you were to serve her notice and she completed a housing application which hid the fact that she's an owner occupier and the social landlord found out, at the very least she might be asked to leave her social housing or be prosecuted for fraud.

Also, the local council would probably need to see her tenancy agreement, so presumably this will need also to be faked, and many tell the tenants to remain in the property until the landlord gains a court order for possession. They do this to try and cut down on the demand for their services - they can't house everyone who receives notice from a landlord.

So it would be rather bizarre for a joint owner to take the other joint owner to court to evict them, pretending that they are a tenant....

Welsh_Totster wrote: »

However I do think youre right and she does resent the thought of having to pay her own way for once. She even asked me to keep the money in my bank account and give her what she wants when she wants it. I refused point blank as its fraudulent and as a Civil Servant Im not putting my job at risk. So youre spot on with that one!

Blimey - definately proof she's a benefit bludger and devious with it. Looks like you are going to have to go down the legal route once she finds out that social housing allocation is unlikely in her current true situation (rather than the one she is trying to engineer and is fake), plus you won't conceal her share of the profits in your bank account.

There was a thread on the benefits forum recently where someone foolishly complied with a relatives request to bank their savings. As a consequence, when they themselves needed to apply for benefits, they were ineligible because they appeared to have high savings. If they then tried to transfer the money back to their relative who actually owned it, they would then face questions from the DWP about why they deprived themselves of capital and would then get refused benefits on these grounds, too.

Sorry, but your mother sounds like an exploitative cow who is going to resist acquiring that lump sum or moving out of your property if it costs her the chances of benefits or securing social housing.

Welsh_Totster

Jowo, right again on so many counts! I havent lived with my mother since I was 9, my grandparents brought me up so my relationship with my mother is more like we are sisters than mother and daughter. She has the chance now to have a nice chunk of money to rent somewhere thats suits her needs, she wont need to scrimp on stuff and then when the money runs out, and only then will she need to go scraping around for benefits again. I dont think she fully understands the impact it will have.

I do not want to be finiancially tied to her in any way if I can help it as she is no good with money and has a really poor credit rating which I dont want to be affected by. I want out and the only way is to sell up!

Jowo_2

Looks like you have to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

A pessimistic scenario is that she will at the very least exhibit passive resistance to the change or actively sabotage it because she enjoys living in the property and doesn't welcome its impact on her chances of getting cheap social housing and less benefits. In this scenario, she'll fib to you and force you to take legal action to sell it, put off prospective buyers and so forth.

An optimistic scenario is that she'll appreciate her options are limited, that she realises that can't manipulate the system in the way that she hopes because its too risky and is not likely to be successful.

Does her current partner work - is he likely to be able to secure the 60-70k to buy out your share?

Have you been in the property recently? Is there any chance that she's got lodgers in and is earning a handsome sum from them on a cash in hand basis and this is perhaps another reason why she doesn't want the gravy train disturbed? I am just speculating.

Out of curiosity, was any of the slow probate issues caused by your mother who may not been as keen to own the property as to live in it?

By the way, there was a separate thread started a few months ago by someone who inherited a property jointly with her brother and a sister on DSS who refused to move out and resisted selling. The sister argued that her siblings should just sign over ownership to her because they had their own properties and she had 'nothing' and tried to guilt trip them.

She then claimed she could raise a mortgage to buy them out which was fairly surprising given that she had no income other than benefits and could not officially have much in the way of savings. She also intended to keep on her separate council property that she'd never given up despite living full time in the mother's old property. Can't remember how it was resolved - that poster was told to give her sister x time to prove that she had secured this unlikely mortgage and then force the sale once the deadline had passed. Other posters told her to notify the council that her social housing was unoccupied.

GDB2222

"Is there anyway I can speed things up to force the sale of the property?"

The legal position is that you can force a sale, if you have to. This will involve going to court. It should take less than a year and cost less than £10,000. My impression, though, is that you don't hate your mother, so I don't think you'd want to do that. The alternative is just to keep on nagging her and being patient.

Your mother will lose entitlement to benefits if she gets half the sale proceeds. If she spends all the money on a world cruise she'll still lose her entitlement to benefits. Your grandmother's gift to your mother was unfortunately not clever, as the main beneficiary of that gift will be the state.

There is one possible solution you could consider that is entirely legitimate and may help a bit:-

1. Your mother transfers her half of the house to you.
2. In return you give her a rent-free lease for say 10 years and you settle up the whole of the solicitor's fees.
3. The house is then 100% in your name and you can raise a mortgage on it if you need to so as to pay the solicitor, pay for maintenance etc.
4. At the end of 10 years your mother becomes homeless and is entitled to receive housing benefits, etc. You get the whole house at the end of 10 years, and you can then sell it.

The 10 years is a period I have just plucked out of the air for illustration purposes. You and your mother would each need separate professional advice.

Jowo_2

GDB2222 wrote: »

Your mother will lose entitlement to benefits if she gets half the sale proceeds. If she spends all the money on a world cruise she'll still lose her entitlement to benefits. .

To clarify, this would only be means tested benefits. If the mother receives DLA, this would not be affected. I don't know if this affects the state pension as I don't know whether this is means tested or not.

I disagree with your statement that the state is main beneficiary of the will as it looks like mother and daughter gets a handsome sum.

I can see why you are proposing a mutually beneficial scheme but the OP appears to want to sell in the near future and would have to review whether your proposal for the mother to transfer her share would be considered as deprivation of capital by the DWP, namely that she gave her capital away just to be in a better position to claim benefits.

I know that you are only proposing a legal way to resolve this that means the mother remains more eligible for benefits and social housing but the time span you quote is approx the timespan that it would take the mother to get through her lump sum and it doesn't require the OP to take all the risks or costs.

Besides, even if a legal solution could be found whereby a lady gifted 70k can manoeuvre her way to maximise state benefits and be allocated a lovely bungalow by the council, the OP seems to have some morals and ethics. (this isn't a pop at you, GDB2222, just that the mother and daughter have widely different approaches to honesty and the culture of benefits

Welsh_Totster

Step dad works but its a really basic wage again his credit score isnt good, no way would they or he get a mortgage to buy me out. Probate took nearly 5 years due to a trust my great grandfather set up before my mother was born to ensure my grandmother always had a roof over her head. The wording was open to interpretation on what was to happen to the property when my gran died, it went to High Court for a judge to decide. Thats why its taken a long time, and the rest of the original estate from my great grandfather (money) was tied up in the trust, shared between my mother and her 2 cousins.

I have no spare cash to deal with the upkeep of a 5 bed victorian town house, its in need of repair, my mother certainly has no money nor the inclination to do any maintenance.

She needs to realise that having money of her own is nice but she needs to use it wisely (which I know she wont) and freebies will not be fortcoming. I dont want to go down the court route, we dont hate each other, she is my mother even though she is crap, I still love her and we can work this out. I realise now after your input that really I should be more proactive now and get the ball rolling.

Thanks again, youre great!

Thanks for all the time and info guys, its much appreciated.