Mechanics taking advantage

Zanzibar

They rang to say that one of the spark plugs was rusted in and that if it broke when they were removing it they would have to remove the cyllinder head at considerable cost

Essentially the customer has to authorise extra work - and didnt. The fact that they rang you for authorisation first was specifically due to it being extra work. You asking how much the work would be is not authorisation - but they started anyway so its down to them now.

They have to duty of care in providing their services and attempting unauthorised extra work to remove a seized plug, failing and then charging you for it fails that.


What can you do? Two ways - simply say you will pay for what was agreed - the service and nothing else. Just ask them - "Why did you start the work that you rang me to say was extra without authorisation?" - there is no real answer they can give.

Or you could pay say 50% of their quote if you feel you need to contribute as the seized plug is a fact (taking them at face value) and would need to be addressed at some point anyway.

Sad, but you may need to take a male friend, partner or other with you so they know you mean business.

bear1969

Anihilator wrote: »

where have they been neglient.

What they did is fairly common for mechanics in this sort of problem.

and you will find most garages have to stand good to put it right one of the joys of mechanicing if i was cleaning your house windows and smashed one then it would be ok for you to pay for it because i broke it see where im coming from:D

mchale

kaya wrote: »

they are taking the mickey, if the porcelain part of the plug snapped off it was nothing to do with rust(porcelain doesnt rust as its ceramic), the only way it broke is if they were ham fisted with it and twisted it at an angle with the socket , if they did break the porcelain then the plug would have still been rusted in(ahem) so nothing could have got into the engine through the plug hole(so there is no need to remove the cylinder head), i have never heard such rubbish in all my life, if they cannot remove a spark plug they have no business going near an engine, if the plug was rusted in(extremely unlikeley) then they need to apply a little heat to free it up or use a bigger ratchet(lever,basic physics), what they have more than likely done is cross threaded the new plug when they were fitting into your car and need to remove the cylinder head to helicoil it(drill it out and insert a new threaded part in order to fit a plug in), there is no water present near a spark plug so how can it rust into place? also the heat produced by an engine would evaporate any rust causing water within a few minuits, the only time i have found rusted plugs is where the car has sat for many years without being used and has got damp, sorry but it sounds like you are paying for somebody elses incompetance

Before you make comments please make sure you know what you are talking about, ask around garages and ask them if ford kent engines where prone to spark plugs snapping in the cyl head due to poor servicing,

you will find the answer is YES

Anihilator

bear1969 wrote: »

and you will find most garages have to stand good to put it right one of the joys of mechanicing if i was cleaning your house windows and smashed one then it would be ok for you to pay for it because i broke it see where im coming from:D

No because smashing the window isnt a normal occurrence, it would be neglient.

Having to force a rusted spark plug and risking damage is a normal occurrence and hence isnt neglient.

kaya

mchale wrote: »

Before you make comments please make sure you know what you are talking about, ask around garages and ask them if ford kent engines where prone to spark plugs snapping in the cyl head due to poor servicing,

you will find the answer is YES

the only part on a spark plug that can snap is the porcelain, which does not affect the the thread in the bore at all or neccesitate removal of the cylinder head, and if the porcelain snaps it cannot enter the bore unless the plug has been removed, the spark plug thread is metal and does not snap, i spent nearly every weekend for ten years at a dragstrip working on engines, after every run the plugs were removed and replaced, thats 8 plugs in total, several times a day, i also designed and sold my own range of nitrous oxide kits and progressive control systems for 5 years, i know more about spark plugs than is healthy, if the porcelain snaps it is because it has had pressure applied in the wrong direction, i have snapped a few porcelain parts in my time, you cannot snap the thread unless the plug was tightened by arnold schwarzenneger and you continue to tighten it rather than undo it especially on an fsh car, which this is, i have also helicoiled a good few heads , maybe it was arnold schwarzennegers big brother working on the car who tightened it instead of loosening it?, i would love to ask a few garages-but most of them stopped employing engineers or mechanics about 20 years ago, they employ parts fitters who usually cant even spell engineering let alone know what it means, are you an engineer? or a mechanic? or a parts fitter? or just going on what dave told you down the nags head last friday perhaps?:beer:

mchale

kaya wrote: »

the only part on a spark plug that can snap is the porcelain, which does not affect the the thread in the bore at all or neccesitate removal of the cylinder head, and if the porcelain snaps it cannot enter the bore unless the plug has been removed, the spark plug thread is metal and does not snap, i spent nearly every weekend for ten years at a dragstrip working on engines, after every run the plugs were removed and replaced, thats 8 plugs in total, several times a day, i also designed and sold my own range of nitrous oxide kits and progressive control systems for 5 years, i know more about spark plugs than is healthy, if the porcelain snaps it is because it has had pressure applied in the wrong direction, i have snapped a few porcelain parts in my time, you cannot snap the thread unless the plug was tightened by arnold schwarzenneger and you continue to tighten it rather than undo it especially on an fsh car, which this is, i have also helicoiled a good few heads , maybe it was arnold schwarzennegers big brother working on the car who tightened it instead of loosening it?, i would love to ask a few garages-but most of them stopped employing engineers or mechanics about 20 years ago, they employ parts fitters who usually cant even spell engineering let alone know what it means, are you an engineer? or a mechanic? or a parts fitter? or just going on what dave told you down the nags head last friday perhaps?:beer:

As I said, ask around and see how many mechanics have come across the Ford taper seated plugs (champion RS9YC) that have sheared between the thread and the spark plug socket nut. (mechanic)

dieselhead

I think the snapped spark plug is actually irrelevant here, the fact is that the work was not authorised. The garage asked if they could continue with the work, the op rather sensibly asked for a price first, upon hearing the price she refused the work. It which point the garage should have stopped. I can't see how asking the price would be an unusual request, I certainly wouldn't agree to work without having a figure in mind, after all the garage need to know you can afford the work.

If the time taken to calculate the price made the car miss its 'slot' in the garage then so be it they should not have done work without authorisation.

OP I would tell the garage that you are not going to pay for work that was not authorised, and you expect the car to be returned to the condition it was before the unauthorised work began. If the garage continue to demand money, I would contact trading standards, however I fear you may wind up getting the car fixed then taking the garage to the small claims court.

bear1969

Anihilator wrote: »

No because smashing the window isnt a normal occurrence, it would be neglient.

Having to force a rusted spark plug and risking damage is a normal occurrence and hence isnt neglient.

think you will find if you phone some garages stuck spark plugs are a normal occurance

bear1969

mchale wrote: »

Before you make comments please make sure you know what you are talking about, ask around garages and ask them if ford kent engines where prone to spark plugs snapping in the cyl head due to poor servicing,

you will find the answer is YES

not just kent engines happened in the old cvh aswell and the zetec:D

bear1969

kaya wrote: »

the only part on a spark plug that can snap is the porcelain, which does not affect the the thread in the bore at all or neccesitate removal of the cylinder head, and if the porcelain snaps it cannot enter the bore unless the plug has been removed, the spark plug thread is metal and does not snap, i spent nearly every weekend for ten years at a dragstrip working on engines, after every run the plugs were removed and replaced, thats 8 plugs in total, several times a day, i also designed and sold my own range of nitrous oxide kits and progressive control systems for 5 years, i know more about spark plugs than is healthy, if the porcelain snaps it is because it has had pressure applied in the wrong direction, i have snapped a few porcelain parts in my time, you cannot snap the thread unless the plug was tightened by arnold schwarzenneger and you continue to tighten it rather than undo it especially on an fsh car, which this is, i have also helicoiled a good few heads , maybe it was arnold schwarzennegers big brother working on the car who tightened it instead of loosening it?, i would love to ask a few garages-but most of them stopped employing engineers or mechanics about 20 years ago, they employ parts fitters who usually cant even spell engineering let alone know what it means, are you an engineer? or a mechanic? or a parts fitter? or just going on what dave told you down the nags head last friday perhaps?:beer:

think you will find they snap just after the nut part leaving the threaded bit stuck in the head which has to be drilled heated then removed with an easy out sorry been there done that:o