School closed. You have to make the time up in holidays!

suzyblu_3

Why are there so many people who think that teaching involves arriving with students and leaving on the dot of 3:30pm....standing in front of them and making up what we're saying as we go along in the meantime?? The prospect of a snow a day was in fact greeted with relief at the amount of paperwork we could all accomplish!!

FatAndy

s0237276 wrote: »

Interesting debate here, my thoughts....
- schools are open, and hence teachers work, for 195 days a year (this is secondary - primary might be one day less)
- of these 195 days, 190 are teaching days and 5 are training days.
- making up a missed teaching day in the holidays is unlikely to happen as it would be requiring teachers to work for more than their 195 days - which would be a breach of contract.

I'm not sure that I understand this point. If you, or indeed any employee in any profession, were to miss a day then you haven't met the terms of your contract. In your case you'll only have worked 194 days rather than the 195 days you're contracted to work. Making up the missed day would take you back up to 195 days thereby meeting the terms of your contract . So surely you'd be in breach of contract if you DIDN'T make up for the missed day.

FatAndy

stuliet wrote: »

Just wanted to make it clear to those reading this thread that as the previous poster said, teachers are paid/contracted to work for 195 days each year, so we are paid for 195 days, but it is pro rata'ed out so we receive a salary each month. It is not like we are paid for all year and have these huge holidays - yes, we do get long holidays, but we are not in fact paid for them, only for the 195 days we are contracted to work!

Being paid on a pro-rata basis is hardly unique to the teaching profession. This month has 21 working days, next month there are 20 and in March there are 23. However, just like millions of other workers, I'll be paid the same salary for each of these months. I think that's fairly standard practice for most monthly paid employees.

In any case surely if you're only contracted to work 195 days then every day you miss is proportionally more significant than a day missed than someone contracted to work 260. If you miss one day that's 0.5128% of your working year lost whereas someone working 260 days would only lose 0.3846 of their year. So logically the fewer days you're contracted to work in the year the greater the onus to make up for any lost time :think:.

Juicyloo

My opinion is that school employees cannot have it every way- whether they be teachers or support staff. The jobs has great periodical holidays with it, but the nature of the job dictates the welfare of the child.

Why should you get paid for not working, the parents having to take time off have to make time up as has already been said- makes my blood boil to be honest- and the reality now of not taking kids out in term time or being fined, this hypocrisy is unbelievable. Won't meet targets will you then schools- gosh sorry just hit a chord with me and have no kids at school anymore!

penguin87

I am a trainee teacher, and know full well that all those teachers will be catching up on planning and marking so perhaps just one day when they are back to school, they'll manage to finish early. (Leave at 5 I mean, having arrived at 8 and probably working through their lunch either chasing pupils or conducting a detention to ensure your kids get an education either though most the time they can't be bothered.)

I am currently back a uiniversity, and noticed a lack of cars on the road. Could this be just because the teachers we not on the roads? I doubt it, uni doesn't start until 9. Teachers were not the only ones who took snow days, which was clearly evident by the lack of traffic. I am also sure that had you worked from home, you would not allow your employer to dock your wages a days pay. Why is it everyone else can be trusted to work at home, yet teachers who do work at home most evenings, part of the weekend and during school holidays cannot be trusted to work at home when school should be on?

I know I'm only a trainee, but from my experience in schools, the 5 hours of teaching each day appear to be the easy part, and the fun part, the reason we all teach. We still have to do the other side of things, all the admin and paperwork even if school is cancelled.

People will always believe teacher's work 9-3 with 13 weeks holiday each year for 25-30K. I wish! If that were really the case, why would there be a shortage of teachers?

Basically, why should teachers have to go in extra days and make up the hours when everyone else is allowed to work from home?

Juicyloo

Oh dear- forgot teacher's working days were so short- not- who said that- you- just the same as 'normal' workers for a decent salary.

Would kill for the wage you have and the work you do love.

The very nature of the job is that you cannot work from home, just as a doctor cannor- sorry- complete exasperation.

And the why all the thing about marking and lesson plans etc- just makes it normal like managers etc on same kind of salaries- but they do not get summer and easter and christmas etc off, with a break every 6 weeks in between- sorry you chose it- exasperation!

So 8- 5 is that not normal!!!!!

donnajunkie

slummymummyof3 wrote: »

I feel quite irritated by some of the comments on here about teachers being paid to sit at home on their lazy *****. I for one spend every evening and most of Sunday each week planning and marking work.

My job is not one that I am paid to work 24 hours a day. Teaching is not a 9-3 occupation and I have certainly not sitting at home without doing any work. If you worked out how many hours the average teacher spends on planning and marking each week I think you would find it would equate to less than the minimum wage.

regarding planning. cant you just refer to your lesson plans from the previous year? surely it also depends what subject you teach on how long this takes anyway. for example when i did gcse maths we just worked through a text book. as far as marking goes there is plenty of time for it. lets assume the school day is 9 to 3.30. you could start at 8 like alot of people and spend 1 hour marking then. you could spend part of the morning, lunch and afternoon breaks marking. you have free periods were you could do marking. you could do marking from 3.30 until 5pm. so if you spend your evenings and weekends marking what do you do in the periods i have mentioned? i forgot there are also parts of the lessons that you teach were the kids are getting on with their work. you could do some marking then as well. of course during these periods you could also do some of the lesson planning that i still cant understand why you need to keep doing that once you have been teaching for a few years. after a few years teaching you must have plenty of stuff already prepared that you could use.

wiseman2

I appreciate all the exasperation However, 8-5 with no lunch break maybe normal, but how many continue when they get home. Some I am sure but not many.

Using planning from last year does happen, but is not possible for all subjects all the time. Lessons need to be replanned for different groups of children as they are all different and unfortunately the lessons we have to teach change almost yearly in some cases. There is always something new to plan, new forms to write, (often things then it has to be copied, typed etc to 3 other places).

Its not straight forward, although a day away from the children helps to catch up elsewhere.

Schools don't shut easily, it actually causes a lot of trouble, trying to get children to reach their targets etc. I am glad we only had one day where it was unsafe (and for most it was). It takes just one slip on the way in to school for us to be hauled over the coals.

I'm sorry if it has caused difficulty, to people, but the teachers don't make the decision, it's the head, based on a number of factors. We do try to get the kids in and safe.

Juicyloo

But that is your choice and you chose that occupation and you have a decent salary. Managers do not get paid by the hour and work when they get home- never switch off.

I have no sympathy whatsoever and think you should be grateful for the jobs you have at the moment

The greatest teachers I had and my kids had never winged and never went into the profession for that, it is a giving profession much like nursing but put yourself in their shoes, also underpaid care workers

Professionals- really- where are your interests?

penguin87

If you read back, you'll hopefully sense the sarcasm when I said leave early at 5. Most leave around that time or later, but if they do get out at 5, they take work with them and work in the evenings. Again, if it were 8-5, I doubt any of us would complain!

Most teachers have been setting work via VLEs and email.

Furthermore, I am sorry your free childcare failed last week. What would you do if your childminder for school holidays was sick? Do you pay him or her for sick days? If not, I assume you would not accept any payment for sick days? Can't help being sick and can't help work being closed. That's another good argument, not everyone gets the same rights or pay when it comes to sick.

Doctors can work from home. Why do they have to do paperwork in their office?

If teaching is so easy and full of perks, why don't you teach? You'll never have to worry about childcare again, it will always be free and you can help provide that. Teachers will always be easy targets for abuse about how easy their lives are. Which is why I fail to understand why their is a teacher shortage when it's such a paart-time job with little work even when you do work. (That was sarcasm, the reality is somewhat different).

Donnajunkie, you can't repeat everything and every lesson plan because the government changes the syllabus every few years, your classes have different needs each year and you would not get away with letting a kid work from a book for an hour nowadays. It all has to be interactive and plenty of activities so the little treasures do not get bored. You can't mark during lessons as you have to help those that need extra help. Frees and lunch are normally spent chasing detentions as said previously for kids that cannot be bothered to do the work and take responsibility for their lives yet. Or some other beautiful admin task the government has introduced. Then there are all those initiatives they keep introducing of how to do things better. I left school 4 years ago and I am shocked at how much it has changed. Although I have only been teaching for a term, I am yet to use a textbook in my classroom.