School closed. You have to make the time up in holidays!

mikey72

slummymummyof3 wrote: »

I feel quite irritated by some of the comments on here about teachers being paid to sit at home on their lazy *****. I for one spend every evening and most of Sunday each week planning and marking work.

My job is not one that I am paid to work 24 hours a day. Teaching is not a 9-3 occupation and I have certainly not sitting at home without doing any work. If you worked out how many hours the average teacher spends on planning and marking each week I think you would find it would equate to less than the minimum wage.

No where near.

You're contracted for 1265 hours teaching time, over 195 days plus "such additional hours as may be necessary" to cover everything else.
In reality if you keep a record you probably find you're doing about 1800 to 2000 hrs a year, the same as every other office worker.
It's a reasonable level of pay, for a fairly difficult job.
But it's the same as any seasonal job, some weeks are very long, some weeks they're virtually non-existent.

(If you were on mimimum wage to get your £25000 salary, you would have to work nearly 83 hours a week, all 52 weeks of the year)

warrenpeace

FatAndy wrote: »

When you say 'everyone else is allowed to work from home' are you referring to shop workers, factory worker or warehouse workers. Perhaps you mean all those people from High Street banks who took sacks of cash home so they could hand tenners out of their kitchen window to passing customers. Maybe you're referring to all those police officers who spent the day clearing all the unsolved crimes committed in their back gardens, or the firemen who were kept occupied by chip pan fires in their kitchens, or how about the ambulance drivers kept on standyby in case anyone slipped and fell in their bathrooms. Or what about gritter drivers, bus drivers, train drivers and delivery drivers? If your boiler broke down yesterday and you called a plumber would you expect him say 'I'll have a look at it but you'll need to bring it round to my house". I'm sure the National Grid can't operate unless the people paid to work in power stations turn up for work? Then again perhaps you're talking about postmen, binmen, mechanics, farmers or nurses. Surgeons will be fine, just scrub down the kitchen table and get operating :eek:.

OK so some office workers may be able to work from home. However lots of offices are a long way from being paperfree environments so without access to files full of documents, invoices etc it might not be possible to do much productive work. The organisation I work for has an online network and in theory I could do some work from home. However to access the network my home PC would need to have a software licence installed. These licenses cost money (I don't know how much) and our IT man would need to make a 120 mile round trip from his office to my house to install one. My organisation operates in the real world so that just ain't going to happen.

One thing I do whole heartedly agree with you on is that teachers should be treated equally to everyone else. Tens of millions of workers don't get paid, or lose annual leave, if they don't show up for work so if that's how most people are treated then I'm sure you'll agree that teachers should be entitled to be treated in the same way. Perhaps you could call your payroll section and see if they sort this out for you .

I think you missed the point. It wasn't about teachers randomly having days off and expecting to get paid. The point was that the school was closed due to the snow, therefore the teachers COULDN'T go in to school to teach the children. Then they were expected to go in in the holidays to make up the time. Doesn't make sense to me. Teachers do a massive amount of work at home and go into school in the holidays all the time anyway to do work/sort out the classroom etc. Unless they were going to have the kids go into school in the holidays as well there's no point demanding that teachers go in.

poet123

warrenpeace wrote: »

I think you missed the point. It wasn't about teachers randomly having days off and expecting to get paid. The point was that the school was closed due to the snow, therefore the teachers COULDN'T go in to school to teach the children. Then they were expected to go in in the holidays to make up the time. Doesn't make sense to me. Teachers do a massive amount of work at home and go into school in the holidays all the time anyway to do work/sort out the classroom etc. Unless they were going to have the kids go into school in the holidays as well there's no point demanding that teachers go in.

:Texactly. Any employee told to stay at home by an employer because the building is shut has to comply. That is what teachers did. So, because many of them would have gone in had they not been told otherwise, how can it be fair to ask them to make the time up or lose pay?

mikey72

A lot of our schools were closed to kids, but not teachers.
The teachers who went in caught up on marking, preparation, so they won't be staying late for the next few days doing it after teaching time like they normally do.
As for going in in summer for a couple of days, again that's work they would be doing at home, just the extra drive to school for a few days.
Also as said a couple of posts above, teachers go in schools in holidays anyway, so in fact it's not actually a penalty to use days they're normally putting in "for free" anyway.
Others teachers round here were told they could work from home if the kids weren't in, so again, catch up on coursework or marking.
Different rules depending on the heads view of it I'm afraid.

FatAndy

warrenpeace wrote: »

I think you missed the point. It wasn't about teachers randomly having days off and expecting to get paid. The point was that the school was closed due to the snow, therefore the teachers COULDN'T go in to school to teach the children. Then they were expected to go in in the holidays to make up the time. Doesn't make sense to me. Teachers do a massive amount of work at home and go into school in the holidays all the time anyway to do work/sort out the classroom etc. Unless they were going to have the kids go into school in the holidays as well there's no point demanding that teachers go in.

Sorry Warren but I think it's you who missed the point :rolleyes:. Jump back to post #66 and read what Penguin actually said. Particularly the bit about 'I am currently back a uiniversity' (hopefully Penguin isn't studying to become an English teacher:eek:). How can Penguin have been turned away from his/her school because it was closed when he/she isn't even working in a school?

I haven't got a problem with teachers who make the effort to get into school and are then sent home through no fault of their own but in this specific case I was responding to someone who's clearly a whinging !!!!!!!!!! who is no doubt more interested in the salary and perks than in being a teacher. Perhaps you should ask yourself if this is someone you really want to become a part of your chosen profession?

poet123

penguin87 wrote: »

I am a trainee teacher, and know full well that all those teachers will be catching up on planning and marking so perhaps just one day when they are back to school, they'll manage to finish early. (Leave at 5 I mean, having arrived at 8 and probably working through their lunch either chasing pupils or conducting a detention to ensure your kids get an education either though most the time they can't be bothered.)

I am currently back a uiniversity, and noticed a lack of cars on the road. Could this be just because the teachers we not on the roads? I doubt it, uni doesn't start until 9. Teachers were not the only ones who took snow days, which was clearly evident by the lack of traffic. I am also sure that had you worked from home, you would not allow your employer to dock your wages a days pay. Why is it everyone else can be trusted to work at home, yet teachers who do work at home most evenings, part of the weekend and during school holidays cannot be trusted to work at home when school should be on?

I know I'm only a trainee, but from my experience in schools, the 5 hours of teaching each day appear to be the easy part, and the fun part, the reason we all teach. We still have to do the other side of things, all the admin and paperwork even if school is cancelled.

People will always believe teacher's work 9-3 with 13 weeks holiday each year for 25-30K. I wish! If that were really the case, why would there be a shortage of teachers?

Basically, why should teachers have to go in extra days and make up the hours when everyone else is allowed to work from home?

This is the post you refer to I believe.

Where does penguin say she/he was turned away from school? she appears to me to be referring to another post where the poster stated their school was closed, (maybe the OP?) not speaking from personal experience of being turned away.

Penguin will be back at Uni doing either a degree in education or a PGCE both of which involve long school placements between periods of study at uni. Where is she/he whinging? As a school Governor this seems to me a fair assessment of what a teacher does.

FatAndy

poet123 wrote: »

This is the post you refer to I believe.

Where does penguin say she/he was turned away from school? she appears to me to be referring to another post where the poster stated their school was closed, (maybe the OP?) not speaking from personal experience of being turned away.

Penguin will be back at Uni doing either a degree in education or a PGCE both of which involve long school placements between periods of study at uni. Where is she/he whinging? As a school Governor this seems to me a fair assessment of what a teacher does.

Hi Poet,

The problem I've got with Penguin is that he/she isn't even qualified yet, let alone in a job, but is already complaining about not being allowed to stay at home because it's been snowing. Once he/she has qualified, got a job and earned some respect from colleagues, pupils and teachers then I might be prepared to listen. It's a bit much to complain that you're been treated unfairly before you've even put in a proper day's work.

What really annoyed me about Penguins posts was this comment - "Basically, why should teachers have to go in extra days and make up the hours when everyone else is allowed to work from home?". This is a whinge. It's not even remotely close to bearing any resemblance to the truth. Unlike Penguin I've worked for the last twenty years. I know what it's like to turn up somewhere forty eight weeks of the year, year after year after year. Do you believe that Penguin is correct in stating "everyone else is allowed to work from home". That is an insult to tens of millions of workers who made the effort to get into work last week. In reality a small minority of people may be able to work from home but the vast majority can't. Once Penguin emerges from the cocoon of university he/she has got a lot of learning about living in the real world to catch up on.

And I'm more than happy to agree with Penguin that teachers shouldn't be treated differently to the rest of. If we don't work we don't get paid and I'm quite happy for Penguin to be treated equally to me on that point.

lovetowinacar

mikey72 wrote: »

No where near.

You're contracted for 1265 hours teaching time, over 195 days plus "such additional hours as may be necessary" to cover everything else.
In reality if you keep a record you probably find you're doing about 1800 to 2000 hrs a year, the same as every other office worker.
It's a reasonable level of pay, for a fairly difficult job.
But it's the same as any seasonal job, some weeks are very long, some weeks they're virtually non-existent.

(If you were on mimimum wage to get your £25000 salary, you would have to work nearly 83 hours a week, all 52 weeks of the year)

My teacher friends realise this and so unlike some do not make silly comments about how their income is near the minimum wage! They have all progressed though the MPS and are now on the UPS pay which is very nice thank you and they never moan since they realise how lucky they are compared to many working in the private sector.

mikey72

lovetowinacar wrote: »

My teacher friends realise this and so unlike some do not make silly comments about how their income is near the minimum wage! They have all progressed though the MPS and are now on the UPS pay which is very nice thank you and they never moan since they realise how lucky they are compared to many working in the private sector.

UPS

£33,412 to £35,929.

I don't begrudge them a penny of it, I just think people who claim that they're on the minimum wage should be put on it for a year. Bit of a difference to £11,600 for 38 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

FatAndy

mikey72 wrote: »

Quite right, you have to have been a teacher three years for that to be your basic.

MAIN PAY SCALE
Year 1 £21,102
Year 2 £22,771
Year 3 £24,602
Year 4 £26,494
Year 5 £28,582
Year 6 £30,842

http://www.teachers.org.uk/taxonomy/term/233

I take all I've said. If I'd realised from the start that teachers had to start off a mere £108.21 per day I'd have been much more sympathetic :rolleyes:.

Free childcare indeed.