MSE News: Government boiler scrappage scheme launches today

diable

I called them up yesterday and registered, today someone called me back and will be sending me the info pack. Lets see how it goes as I do "need" to replace my system boiler (Potterton Flamingo II) so the £400 would help me out.

MiserlyMartin

Cardew wrote: »

Not to mention the repairs!

As said many times, the old boilers rarely broke down. The electronics on modern boilers cost a fortune to repair - it normally involves replacement of a PCB at the cost of £hundreds.

Absolutely right. There is no point in changing a good working boiler for a new unreliable one. They only last 10 years before the parts are obsolete!

Think of all the 'Co2' costs in scrapping a good old boiler and the making of the new one. Its just like the car scheme.

This is just another useless government scheme from a desperate government.

Nikki

Cardew wrote: »

Not to mention the repairs!

As said many times, the old boilers rarely broke down. The electronics on modern boilers cost a fortune to repair - it normally involves replacement of a PCB at the cost of £hundreds.

We have a 29 yr old boiler, the lady that owned our house before us had it serviced every year by BG. She left us the paperwork from the last service and unsurprisingly BG recommended replacement due to age and difficulty in obtaining parts if it broke down. We shall not be taking their recommendation, my past experience with modern boilers is not good and I fully agree with the above quote. Our boiler works a treat, it may cost us a little more on the gas, but not as much as replacing it for a modern less reliable one would. The £400 voucher is all well and good, but where is the other £2100 coming from?!

Cardew

I posted this in another thread:

The RoyalInstitution of Chartered Surveyors stated recently :

The average cost of installing one of these modern boilers is £1,720, but saves on average just £95 off people's gas bills." See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...erts-warn.html

My 21 year old G rated boiler apparently has an efficiency of 65%. However there is no way of knowing exactly at what efficiency it currently operates; as there are no adjustments whatsoever that affect efficiency(other than the size of pilot flame) I would think(hope!) that it will be still in that order of 65%.

I have read on technical websites that although the latest boilers can achieve a theoretical 90% in practice they are likely to be lower than this.

To support the contention that these boiler are less reliable read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005/apr/02/consumerissues.jobsandmoney

But critics argue the switchover is unlikely to be plain sailing. The new systems cost upwards of £2,500 to buy and install - £500 more on average than conventional boilers. And if the many letters from Jobs & Money readers and heating engineers are anything to go by, the boilers come with a hidden surcharge, so high that it can wipe out all the gains for the homeowner and the environment.
Critics argue that condenser boilers malfunction easily and can cost hundreds of pounds a year to maintain. Many survive only half as long as their traditional counterparts. They are technically complex, with many more things that can go wrong than traditional boilers. It can add up to nightmarish bills.
One major independent firm of plumbers said that over the past three to four years it has made thousands of call-outs to mend condensing boilers, and that the greenhouse gas emissions from its vans were probably greater than the savings made by the shift to eco-conscious boilers.

Admittedly that was written in 2005, but there is plenty of evidence to show that reliability is still questionable. Most manufacturers still only give a 2 year guarantee(the longest 5 years - and only if you have them serviced by approved fitters).

rafikiyako

I joined MRE yesterday and have read previous comments. I think I have a valid input. A few months ago I answered an EST questionnaire about my heating system. I was very surprised to find that in the list of controls that weather compensation was absent. The reply from the EST was that I could save £16 p/a by increasing roof insulation, £39 p/a by boiler and controls upgrade ( I don't have a room stat) and £100 p/a by changing my boiler. They over estimated my running costs(£ 1087) -actually£801 (2009-2010). My boiler is an older'Ideal' cast iron fan flued unit which at a haeting trade exhibition I was advised to keep as long as posible (by an 'Ideal' rep!!!) Thing is that weather compensation is not generally known about( used to be called 'boiler energy managers) and when I spoke to Mike Vint of the EST many years ago he agreed with me that thermostatic radiator valves and a BEM were probably the best method of system control. Basically, as the outside temperature drops hotter water is allowed to circulate to radiators etc. but as it returns to the boiler warmer and warmer as the system heats up, fuzzy logic takes over and lowers the temperature of the water going to radiators. The pump still runs and circulates but the boiler only fires to maintain a lower water temperature - so it doesn't fire up as often and that's where I reckon I've saved!! Some boiler manufacturers offer weather compensation as an optional extra - I think it should be mandatory.
Another point often ignored with the obligatory condensing boilers, is that the cooler the water to be heated the more heat is extracted from the flue gases, so by keeping heating return water temperatures as low as possible (as with a BEM) the boiler efficiency is maximised and running costs are minimised.
More tomorrow.....

aitch2oh

WARNING a new boiler can cost more than you think

I got a new condensing boiler under the old scheme after British Gas condemned my old boiler even after I had paid unto their scheme for 14 years without one call out.

The new boiler broke down after three and a half years 2 days after Christmas.
There was no one available to call out even on the Tuesday so I had to give in and call out British Gas. It took 2 days for the man to admit he didnt have a clue. The next day I finally got the company who did the installation and the annual checks to come out. Still could not repair it as no spare parts available until January 4th 2010.
Bill? £573.82p
Mother board was £217.17
Display board (possibly broken by the British Gas man) £162.58
Three hours labour £194.07 (he was here for more than three hours)
I Googled the boiler, a Glow-worm 30cxi and it costs £625.00.

I think the whole scheme is a money making scam.
British Gas do the comdemning and changing the standards so the boilers we have are always out of date.
The new boilers are designed to need a lot of repairs.
British Gas and the boiler makers and the repairman all make money.
As for the environment? I have all my records of fuel consumption going back many years and my new boiler has not cut down on the calorific consumption.

I think this scrappage sceme is like the new lamps for old in the Alladin story.
Nothing is for nothing.
Now my boiler works and I have paid the bill do I have enough money to pay the bills? Probably not and I have treble checked and I am just a tiny bit above the level to get help under any scheme.

So hang on to your old boiler; there is no such thing as a free lunch!

Cardew

aitch2oh wrote: »

WARNING a new boiler can cost more than you think

I got a new condensing boiler under the old scheme after British Gas condemned my old boiler even after I had paid unto their scheme for 14 years without one call out.

The new boiler broke down after three and a half years 2 days after Christmas.
There was no one available to call out even on the Tuesday so I had to give in and call out British Gas. It took 2 days for the man to admit he didnt have a clue. The next day I finally got the company who did the installation and the annual checks to come out. Still could not repair it as no spare parts available until January 4th 2010.
Bill? £573.82p
Mother board was £217.17
Display board (possibly broken by the British Gas man) £162.58
Three hours labour £194.07 (he was here for more than three hours)
I Googled the boiler, a Glow-worm 30cxi and it costs £625.00.

I think the whole scheme is a money making scam.
British Gas do the comdemning and changing the standards so the boilers we have are always out of date.
The new boilers are designed to need a lot of repairs.
British Gas and the boiler makers and the repairman all make money.
As for the environment? I have all my records of fuel consumption going back many years and my new boiler has not cut down on the calorific consumption.

I think this scrappage sceme is like the new lamps for old in the Alladin story.
Nothing is for nothing.
Now my boiler works and I have paid the bill do I have enough money to pay the bills? Probably not and I have treble checked and I am just a tiny bit above the level to get help under any scheme.

So hang on to your old boiler; there is no such thing as a free lunch!

To support the contention that these boiler are less reliable read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005...s.jobsandmoney

Critics argue that condenser boilers malfunction easily and can cost hundreds of pounds a year to maintain. Many survive only half as long as their traditional counterparts. They are technically complex, with many more things that can go wrong than traditional boilers. It can add up to nightmarish bills.
One major independent firm of plumbers said that over the past three to four years it has made thousands of call-outs to mend condensing boilers, and that the greenhouse gas emissions from its vans were probably greater than the savings made by the shift to eco-conscious boilers.

In particular the price of the Electronic Boards is simply a joke. We are held to ransom.

Arzanni

Well 12 months on from this "wonderfull" scheme and the average installation cost in 2010 being £2500 less the scrappage scheme seemed good value, well guess what surprise surprise 2011 and the cost of installation WITH scrappage is now £2500. With combi boilers available for under £700 and grants available up to £800 where in the world do British Gas get the guall (May 2011) to charge £1800 for standard replacement, I was quoted yesterday including £68 for a 3m length of 22mm copper tube £45 for disposal????? This is Government legislated ripoff. Peoples hands are tied with red tape and regulations and are forced into the clutches of these parasites