'Should married couples get a tax break?' poll discussion

wildthing01

Dave101t wrote: »

we would also need a break for civil partnerships, as well as one for athiests who would be discriminated against by imposing this terrible idea.
Now imagine when someone really genuinely posts something like this!

marriage is the bedrock of a well functioning society, directly contributing to the economy (one at home, one working or both working), pension pots( employment deductions), family values (proper unit, plus discipline) etc etc and should be rewarded by a 50% tax reduction.
in short, marriage breakdown is one of the main causes of crap societies because of the knock on effects which are becoming apparent and moreso in the next 20 years. ho hum.

my husband and i were together 11 years before marrying, as we simply couldn't afford the wedding any sooner, plus we were prioritising buying and doing up our home, so i don't see why we should have been penalised just because we hadn't been able to marry just yet.... people don't have to be married to be able to contribute to the economy and bring up their children responsibly.
plus i don't get what you mean by atheists being discriminated against? atheisits are allowed to get married you know (or not, as they choose).....

Indie_Kid

Married couples already get a tax break though - if I was earning £20k, I would pay more tax on that than what a couple earning £20k would. Fair?

PoorPennilessMe

robin_banks wrote: »

You wont end up resenting your child.

And your evidence for this? Without wishing to play forum tennis on this, I do think I know myself a little better than you know me. If you refer to my original post, you will note that myself and my long-term girlfriend do not choose to live together. This is because we are selfish people who do not wish to compromise our independant lifestyles. We are exclusive where others are concerned, but other than that, completely, utterly, selfishly independant.

I didn't make that comment for effect, but rather self-awareness...

Sarsybubblebrain

bigblackdog wrote: »

it is more a case of you are penalised for being married , by the tax system /benefits system , why should your husband/wifes income matter to a person personally regarding benefits or tax?

I totally agree. I'm aware of several people who are much better off financially now that they are seperated. Happily married myself and both of us working hard at 2 jobs each to make ends meet and sick of paying for others on the benefit system to claim all they can. Not blaming them just this rotten government

dave2

1. "Marriage is good for society"

Well there's some debate on that but lets pretend this is a given for the moment.
a) So what? Lots of things are "good for society" but don't confer tax breaks. Where is the tax break for joining a gym? For quitting smoking? For not taking drugs? For volunteering with a charitable organisation?

b) "Marriage is a good environment for rearing children". Perhaps, but that is a logically invalid argument because the tax break benefits marriage, children or no.

b) From another perspective, is marriage itself good for society or is it the family values that promoted marriage? The act of signing a marriage contract seems unlikely to bear any benefit, rather it is the reasons that led to their doing so.

Providing a financial incentive for marriage only encourages marriage for the wrong reasons, suggesting any societal advantage is lost. Worse, the distortion will lead to situations where people whom should not get married do so.

c) Efficiency: is a tax break a good use of societal funds? Is a tax break really going to encourage anyone to get married? To change in any way that benefits society? It would be very costly yet do nothing for society.

d) Highly regressive: married couples allowance benefits the rich more than the poor. Say a MCA of £2,000 is introduced: if one partner is on the 50% tax rate they will pay £1,000 less tax. Those on the basic rate only pay £400 less tax. A really poor couple paying no tax do not benefit at all.


2. "Tax and benefits system discriminates against couples"

a) - The tax system does not discriminate (ignoring regressive/progressive arguments for now).
- The benefits system does arguably discriminate against couples.

You can't argue for breaking the tax system because the benefit system is broken.

b) "benefits system discriminates against couples" so why is the tax break only for married couples? Tax and benefits system would now BOTH discriminate against unmarried couples.

c) None of these arguments have even pretended to do so in a sensible manner - "positive discrimination" in the tax system will not fix negative discrimination in the benefit system, because they work different ways all you get is a range of +/- discrimination. No suggestion has been made to match any tax break with any benefit discrimination.


Please argue why I should pay for you to be married.


Note none of the above argues against married couples being able to transfer their unused tax allowances. The idea that married couples should be seen as one taxable unit is an entirely different concept.


I think it's pretty clear everybody should be disclosing their own bias to their arguments:
I'm not married. My view on marriage is that it is a highly valuable, important personal institution that government should not be meddling with in any way. It is a civil contract

Paul_Herring

sh1305 wrote: »

Married couples already get a tax break though - if I was earning £20k, I would pay more tax on that than what a couple earning £20k would. Fair?

Well, no - this is the point of the argument...

If you have one person earning £20K, they pay so much tax.

If you have two people earning £10K each, they pay less tax (your argument,).. HOWEVER...

If one person is earning £20K, in order to take advantage of the current situation, they must take a £10K decrease, and their partner find a job earning £10K to achieve your theoretical situation.

Unlikely to say the least. In order to take 'advantage' of the current situation, both must be working, and earning above the tax free allowance.

What some want is for the person earning £20K to have the non-working partner's tax free allowance in addition to their own.

tangowithcash

I don't believe there should be any tax breaks for people in marriage or any other relationship.

Why should people with two incomes, two sets of assets, two toasters etc receive extra help, while single people have to manage on their own?

I say give increased tax breaks to people with children, whether married, co-habiting, civil partnership, singleparent etc, to balance out the cost and reduction in income and cost of raising children.

And I dont want children, so this isn't for selfish reasons as I won't benefit.

charlysez

why should married ppl get a tax break? probably both working any way so just keep the individual tax deductions. we are all individuals and should be taxed accordingly.
it infuriates me that some couples apparently earning £66k can still claim tax credits, when a single person on £15k cannot!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

adwat

tangowithcash wrote: »

I don't believe there should be any tax breaks for people in marriage or any other relationship.

Why should people with two incomes, two sets of assets, two toasters etc receive extra help, while single people have to manage on their own?

I say give increased tax breaks to people with children, whether married, co-habiting, civil partnership, singleparent etc, to balance out the cost and reduction in income and cost of raising children.

And I dont want children, so this isn't for selfish reasons as I won't benefit.

If the government wanted to engineer population growth this would be just the policy to implement.

kerrydrobertson

ive not voted yet as kind of unsure. We have been married for just over 6 years and have 2 children. i worked up until i had my 2nd (obviously with a maternity break for 1st) and my husband has worked all his life.
I dont claim any benefits as not entitled to apart from our child benefit £120 a month and tax credits which is £90 a month.
My husband earns £27,000 a year (which i consider to be a really good wage), he pays around £400 a month in tax (approx) and we get £90 back. We just manage to pay our rent, bills and food and have barely any leftover and we keep our bills etc to a minimum.
So basically if i worked what would we get in tax credits then and we would have childcare costs too to cover.
Im not saying that there should be a tax break but somthing should be done to help families in general a bit more whether they are married or not.

i find it so unfair for the families that work really really hard and get peanuts back from the government.