P45 left on windscreen ......

infinitymum

Hi all, we meet with the father (and his wife) of a good friend last night to discuss events which have happened over the past few weeks. In a nutshell:

• 'Fred' is a 63 year old farmhand who has worked on the same farm since 1969
• Farm changed hands in 1982 to present owner
• He and his wife have rent free accomodation as part of the job since 1969 (we therefore believe they are 'protected tenants)
• The first contract he received was in 1998 (not signed or returned by Fred)
• Gets paid weekly in cash
• Started receiving payslips in 2007 (P60's received 2007/2008/2009)
• The main farm owner (mrs) died early October 2009
• Fred received part 1a of a P45 on is windscreen 1 week later (no discussion)
• Apology letter from late farm owner's husband 2 week later advising P45 was to transfer him to new company name together with 2 x new contract (not signed or returned by Fred)
• New contract terms changed (pay/hours/lunch)
• Fred has continued working on farm as late farm owner's husband has been on vacation since P45 received
• Late farm owner's husband has asked to see Fred tomorrow
• Fred has a personal pension which kicks in in 2 years time when he is 65
• Fred and his wife have been worried sick over the xmas period about losing the house
• The sons and daughters of the farm owner are publicly bickering over who gets Fred's house ....

Any thoughts on next steps please?

We believe:

• Fred has a fair case to pursue for unfair dismissal (or does he?) And who should he turn to ACAS or a solicitor? Baring in mind that money is very tight for Fred and his wife.
• Fred and his wife are protected tenants so will never lose their home until they have both passed away (and should he leave/retire/take redundancy from his job, nominal rent will be payable once assessed by local council)

After our chat, we have suggested Fred and his wife decide what they would like to do in the future and they are coming around again tomorrow evening for another chat. They are lovely people and have been treated appallingly. Your advice would be more than welcomed before then. Thank you!

borders_dude

Presumably ofcourse they have spoken with a lawyer/solicitor to get proper legal advice rather than rely on advice soley from yourself who doesnt seem to be a legal eagle.

choille

Look at the Shelter website - re the housing aspect it's very good.
This is terrible - all my sympathies.

DVardysShadow

infinitymum wrote: »

• Late farm owner's husband has asked to see Fred tomorrow
• Fred has a personal pension which kicks in in 2 years time when he is 65
• Fred and his wife have been worried sick over the xmas period about losing the house
• The sons and daughters of the farm owner are publicly bickering over who gets Fred's house ....

Any thoughts on next steps please?

Wait until tomorrow. Fred to keep mouth shut, listen and if necessary ask to have meeting with another person present.

dmg24

There are special provisions made for properties on agricultural land, and those provided for agricultural workers. It is a complex area, but there are provisions under which they could be evicted once his employment ends.

I do not see grounds for unfair dismissal (he is still employed?). There is a possibility of constructive dismissal, but in the present circumstances these would be far from clearcut.

I think your friend needs to take advice on this, and not from an internet forum!

choille

I agree - he needs a legal eye on this. If he's a member of NUF then I'd give them a ring if I was him & get a lawyer on to it through the CAB if necessary.

borders_dude

dmg24 wrote: »

I think your friend needs to take advice on this, and not from an internet forum!

A key comment on this matter, one which the OP should give real consideration to!

infinitymum

You are correct borders_deude. No legal training for either of us, just 60 cummuliative years of office, personnel and managerial experience between us.

They have not spoken with a solictor yet as when I rang ACAS for them on Friday, ACAS advised they would be happy to take on a concilaition role to sort the issue out so a solicitor might not be needed at present. It depends if they want to go down the route of unfair dismissal.

choille - Yes thanks for that. I downloaded the Agricultural Tenancy leaflet which seems to indicate they are protected tenants. We are going to call Shelter tomorrow too.

fengirl_2

He has not been dismissed - as the employer says, the P45 was a technicality to transfer him from one farm company to another. The fact that he has not signed a contract does not mean that one4 does not exists. A contract does not need to be signed by both parties.
I think he should wait and see what happens and take advice from ACAS in the first instance if he is dismissed.

Ryann_2

This seems so cruel.

anamenottaken

infinitymum wrote: »

1. The first contract he received was in 1998 (not signed or returned by Fred)
2. The main farm owner (mrs) died early October 2009
3. Fred received part 1a of a P45 on is windscreen 1 week later (no discussion)
4. Apology letter from late farm owner's husband 2 week later advising P45 was to transfer him to new company name together with 2 x new contract (not signed or returned by Fred)
5. New contract terms changed (pay/hours/lunch)
6. Fred has continued working on farm as late farm owner's husband has been on vacation since P45 received

1 But he worked after that date and will be deemed to have accepted the terms
2 and 3 - so they were arranging his transfer which is why he received only part 1a not 2 and 3 as well
4 to 6 Again he has been working since receiving the revised contractual terms and will be deemed to have accepted them - unless they were to try to reduce his statutory rights or say his employment was not continuous