Gas on constantly or on and off...?

inaminute23

Plausible!!

From the link......

"Under some conditions the initially warmer water will freeze first. If this occurs, we have seen the Mpemba effect"

grahamc2003

inaminute23 wrote: »

Plausible!!

From the link......

"Under some conditions the initially warmer water will freeze first. If this occurs, we have seen the Mpemba effect"

The so called Mpemba effect is more a play on words rather than the thermodynamics of heat exchange (the latter being proved to the status of scientific laws, and explicitly in direct contradition of your views, which you should have dropped during 'o' level physics).

The Mpenba effect is seen when e.g.you have 1cc of boiling water and it freezes quickier than 1Gl of water at 1 deg C - i.e. the hotter water freezes quicker - see the play on words, with a perfectly predictable outcome in agreement with thermodynanic laws (as you would expect!)? It's the same for all other explanations for the mpenba effect (i.e. adding impurities to water (so it's not water afterall!), some water evaporating (so the evaporated water hasn't frozen at all!) etc etc.

In normal daily life, I'd advise you to accept that warmer water takes longer to cool to a certain temperature than cooler water does, under the normal meaning of the words (i.e. the all important implied words 'all other things being equal')

grahamc2003

inaminute23 wrote: »

Why can't people just admit that is plausible in certain homes to run there heating constant, and it be cheaper than timed? Or are all the people who say it is on here, including myself liars? Have i ever stated that it is cheaper to run your house on constant? No!

Because you are basically saying the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to your house. You're not a liar - you are simply misinformed/unable to make rational judgements from the evidence you collect beacuse you have a pre-determined outcome (for some unknown reason)..

You are really onto a loser when trying to argue against well known and obvious scientific laws.

inaminute23

inaminute23 wrote: »

Quote:

Which loses heat quicker, a room surrounded by 4 internal walls, or a room surrounded by 4 walls, but one is external. All of the same structure, size, & same size heating?

Are we not answering this question?

Cardew

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Because you are basically saying the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to your house. You're not a liar - you are simply misinformed/unable to make rational judgements from the evidence you collect beacuse you have a pre-determined outcome (for some unknown reason)..

You are really onto a loser when trying to argue against well known and obvious scientific laws.

It is just like people who swear blind that a magnet strapped to the fuel lines of a car improve fuel consumption by 40% - the technical explanation being that is 'lines up the molycules'(sic)!!

No point in arguing with people like that.

This from the Energy Saving Trust.

Question

Is it more economical to leave my heating on 24hrs in the winter?

Answer

No. It is a common misconception that it is cheaper to leave your hot water and heating on all the time. Boilers use more power initially to heat water from cold, however the cost of this is greatly exceeded by the cost of keeping the boiler running all of the time.

The best solution is to programme your heating system so that it comes on when you need it most (possibly early morning and in the evening), and goes off when you don't need it (when you are out of the house or asleep). There are a range of controls that can be used and your heating engineer will be able to provide you with the most appropriate solution.

Depending on your circumstances it may be necessary to keep the heating on all day during winter but it will cost more than if you turn the heating off when you don't need it.

The laws of thermodynamics would confirm that statement.

In fact it makes me wonder why we have timers on central heating systems, as apparently using them increases the cost.;)

davidgmmafan

This thread is very amusing, people seem to be arguing the same thing. People saying I leave my heating on constantly but set to a certain temperature. If you are using the thermostat then by definition the heating is NOT on all the time. Its just another way of limiting this, just like a timer is.

Whilst we're banding around meaningless anecdotes a colleague of mine spoke to a customer who had thier heating on 24/7 (literally). The consumption was £280 per month.

inaminute23

davidgmmafan wrote: »

This thread is very amusing, people seem to be arguing the same thing. People saying I leave my heating on constantly but set to a certain temperature. If you are using the thermostat then by definition the heating is NOT on all the time. Its just another way of limiting this, just like a timer is.

Spot on! Some people just like to think they know it all, and can't comprehend plausibilty.

inaminute23

Cardew wrote: »

In fact it makes me wonder why we have timers on central heating systems, as apparently using them increases the cost.;)

Because it can.

davidgmmafan

I can see why they are concerned though, assuming, for the sake of argument, some people find it cheaper to have the heating on for longer (doesn't make sense to me) can we at least agree that for most people its best to have it on as little as possible?

Because I would say the danger of people believing the latter is greater than people believing the former.

inaminute23

davidgmmafan wrote: »

I can see why they are concerned though, assuming, for the sake of argument, some people find it cheaper to have the heating on for longer (doesn't make sense to me) can we at least agree that for most people its best to have it on as little as possible?

Because I would say the danger of people believing the latter is greater than people believing the former.

The point i'm trying to make is that when i had I my heating on 6-7am, and then 6.30-9.30/10pm with the stat set at 19, it was more COST efficient to run my heating on constant with the stat set at 19. Also, when I first implemented this, my current room temp was 20deg, so there was no start up cost to get the room up to stat temp.