Repeated failure to repair car from main dealer

raz_1

This is my first ever post in a forum so please ignore my ignorance if I breach any etiquette. I am looking for a bit of advice with what I can do to get my car back up and running.

To cut a long story short in Nov my car sensed a fault intermittently displaying the engine management light and restricting my revs and speed, it was also idling funny. At this point I took it to the dealer with whom I've had a long (mostly happy) relationship with previous unrelated repairs*.

I explained the problem, booked the car in and they advised me that a valve required replacing costing ~£350. I took them at their word (as with previous repairs) and gave the go ahead for repairs.

Later the same day after collecting the car, I had the same faults. I explained the unsuccessful repair and had the car booked in again. This time around the advised me that a fuel rail needed changing at a cost of ~£700 (this was dropped by 10% when I asked for a discount for having to bring the car back in).

When I took the car back and although they had fixed the limited speed and engine management issues, the problem with the idling was still there (the car was vibrating really badly and dropping revs). The issue I have is that when I called back again I was told that this was a separate problem and I was supposed to have been advised about fuel injectors becoming worn and needing to be replaced also (?) When asked why I wasn't advised of this before I was told, later, when called back, that whenever I come to collect my car, I do so after hours (?). Although this was not the case both times when Service Advisers were there to take my payments and return my car.

So my question is can they really get away with saying that even though I explained all the problems from the start and just asked them to fix it. Im not very mechanically minded and rely on the garage to keep me right.

Many thanks in advance.

Raz

Oh and btw these fuel injectors repairs are another ~£400 and because I did not take them up on this straightaway, it is now going to be £1700 !!!

Steve_xx

This is a really difficult issue to resolve and it might be that you will have to obtain an independent assessment of the situation by a specialist or perhaps the AA.

It might be that there is a competence issue with the garage and you may be able to obtain some recompense if this is the case. But in order to obtain this you would need to establish that they had not been competent in their diagnosis and this diagnosis will necessitate you employing a specialist. It seems to me that they are stabbing in the dark at the problem and that they aren't certain of the root causes. But they ought to have told you of that was the case and then you could have decided whether or not to allow them to do the work.

Some years ago I took my car to the garage to have its rear brake pads replaced. The work, along with something else I had done came to £221. I got the car back and when I braked there was a sqeak. I thought it might stop after a while but it didn't. Took it back twice and still it squeaked. Drove me nuts that I'd paid for this. After the second return to the garage I got fed up, so I wrote to the credit card company and told them that they had a problem and that I wanted my money back. They credited my account with the whole £221 and after that I wasn't too bothered about the squeak!

Another event with the same car. It was losing water. Couldn't see it dripping anywhere but yet it was losing it. Took it to the garage and they gave me a list totallling the thick end of £1000 and they couldn't guarantee it would cure it. I decided not to go ahead and thought I'd keep filling it with water while I investigated further. A friend looked at it, bonnet up and we noted that a 'u' shaped plastic air ducting pipe was vibrating because both screws that ought to have secured it to the car body were missing. This vibrating ducting was rubbing a cap that resembled the top off of a tube of toothpaste. The vibrations caused this cap to unscrew and the result was loss of all of the water as the cap was some kind of steam saftey valve. The repair involved simply tightening the cap and replacing the two screws that were missing from the plastic ducting pipe. Cost of the repair was zero.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Raz your story is becoming all too common, it's so often the case that garages use their diagnostics machines to tell them whats wrong, then when various codes are thrown up they are interpreted and new parts fitted which in theory should cure the problem.

Unfortunately as with many things it's not always crystal clear what the problem is and codes themselves need to be looked at by a highly experiened mechanic who specialises in diagnostics...especially with Diesels which i believe your car to be, these chaps are as rare as hens teeth.

It seems your garage is throwing parts at the car, until they fix the problem, unfortunately this method could cost thousands of pounds with a modern Diesel when it might be a relatively minor part thats causing the problem, and it's often a part not reported as faulty by diagnostics, thats where specialist knowledge comes in.

If it were me, i'd be wanting a recommended specialist Diesel workshop to look at the car.

You could try posting your problem on a make/vehicle specific forum before any more parts get thrown at the car.

edit...not sure from your post whther new injectors will cost £400 total or £1700..onmost cars 4 x new Diesel injectors would be anything from £800 to £1600 plus fitting and programming.

Phil_L_2

If you have an intermittent fault it is very likely to be an electrical fault. Which vehicle is it and do you know the fault code?

computershack

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Raz your story is becoming all too common, it's so often the case that garages use their diagnostics machines to tell them whats wrong, then when various codes are thrown up they are interpreted and new parts fitted which in theory should cure the problem.

Nail well and truly hit on the head. I once had a Scania main dealer mechanic come out to me when my wagon broke down. Laptop battery was flat so he was stuffed. I had to teach him how to read the fault code from the dashboard warning lamp flashes. He was still then stuffed because the only copy of the fault codes was what he had on the laptop :rolleyes: so then I had to tell him what it could be. Where did I get all of this wonderful information from - the Drivers Handbook which are usually quite comprehensive on lorries and basic old school diagnosis.

raz_1

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

Some further information I didn't originally mention, but feel at this point is relevant, is that the garage in question is actually John R. Weir, Mercedes Benz of Dundee and is an authorised Mercedes sales and service garage. So if they are just trying different parts and hoping for the best I am a bit worried. Ive had my car for the best part of four years now and its not been without its problems. Ive had a coolant pump go, suspension parts replaced and fuel lines replaced. Not being mechanically minded Ive simply had to state the problems and rely on MB to diagnose and repair (which they have on all previous faults). At this point I just want my car back on the road.

I have been on the Trading Standards website and what caught my attention was this:

If a fault has not been repaired properly, you should allow the garage the chance to rectify it. If they fail to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover the cost from the garage.

So Ive decided to write out a letter with all the above points and will phone tomorrow to arrange a meeting with their Customer Service Manager (maybe stopping by the Trading Standards offices on the way for a bit more advice). Im hoping he or she will take this on board. If not can I pursue this matter legally?

Steve_xx, can you please tell me more about claiming back the money on your credit card, this is how I paid for both my repairs.

Steve_xx

raz_1 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

Some further information I didn't originally mention, but feel at this point is relevant, is that the garage in question is actually John R. Weir, Mercedes Benz of Dundee and is an authorised Mercedes sales and service garage. So if they are just trying different parts and hoping for the best I am a bit worried. Ive had my car for the best part of four years now and its not been without its problems. Ive had a coolant pump go, suspension parts replaced and fuel lines replaced. Not being mechanically minded Ive simply had to state the problems and rely on MB to diagnose and repair (which they have on all previous faults). At this point I just want my car back on the road.

I have been on the Trading Standards website and what caught my attention was this:

If a fault has not been repaired properly, you should allow the garage the chance to rectify it. If they fail to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover the cost from the garage.

So Ive decided to write out a letter with all the above points and will phone tomorrow to arrange a meeting with their Customer Service Manager (maybe stopping by the Trading Standards offices on the way for a bit more advice). Im hoping he or she will take this on board. If not can I pursue this matter legally?

Steve_xx, can you please tell me more about claiming back the money on your credit card, this is how I paid for both my repairs.

The thorny problem here is to a degree dependent on how you explained to the garage what was wrong in the first place, ie you didn't send them on a wild goose chase. Not that I'm suggesting that's what you did.

The garage have a duty to take 'reasonable' care in effecting a repair. They must be competent. Yet it seems that they have demonstrated that they are not competent. If you take it to the small claims court to recover some or all of your outlay you need to remember that the judge may have had a garage incident in his or her lifetime and therefore may be sympathetic to you. Judges do get case hardened.

Going back to the credit card situation. As I explained, the credit card company, under the Consumer Credit Act, Section 75, do have some responsibility to ensure that goods and services paid for are satisfactory. Therefore the credit card company is actually jointly liable to you. It will certainly be easier for you to reclaim your money from the credit card company than it would be to start court proceedings. Also, you would need to demonstrate to the credit card company that you had endeavoured with the garage to resolve it between you.

You must keep copies of written correspondence between you and the company and you would do well to encourage written correspondence as opposed to phone calls. Use email if necessary in order to gather written evidence of the story so far.

You can read here about the Consumer Credit Act:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

raz_1 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

Some further information I didn't originally mention, but feel at this point is relevant, is that the garage in question is actually John R. Weir, Mercedes Benz of Dundee and is an authorised Mercedes sales and service garage. So if they are just trying different parts and hoping for the best I am a bit worried. Ive had my car for the best part of four years now and its not been without its problems. Ive had a coolant pump go, suspension parts replaced and fuel lines replaced. Not being mechanically minded Ive simply had to state the problems and rely on MB to diagnose and repair (which they have on all previous faults). At this point I just want my car back on the road.

I have been on the Trading Standards website and what caught my attention was this:

If a fault has not been repaired properly, you should allow the garage the chance to rectify it. If they fail to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover the cost from the garage.

So Ive decided to write out a letter with all the above points and will phone tomorrow to arrange a meeting with their Customer Service Manager (maybe stopping by the Trading Standards offices on the way for a bit more advice). Im hoping he or she will take this on board. If not can I pursue this matter legally?

Steve_xx, can you please tell me more about claiming back the money on your credit card, this is how I paid for both my repairs.

Right, forget the dealer. I'm a Mercedes owner, and I can tell you that if you want proper advice, from people who understand how cars work (and not simply how the diagnostic tools work), go here:

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php

I'm guessing its a diesel.

raz_1

This is all so overwhelming and a bit scary, lol. But I've drafted a quick summary of the above events to go in with when I make an appointment to see the Mercedes Service manager. I'm asking for them to collect, diagnose and repair my car at their expense as I have paid for two unsuccessful repairs when both times they (the experts) have supposedly fixed the problems. I'll give them a reasonable time to respond (I'll make sure they do so in writing) to give me their side of the story and if needed, evidence to make a claim in court.

With regards to my explanation of the problems, Im not mechanically minded, but I think I did a reasonable job. I can even remember saying to the girl at the service desk that with the funny idling (it was vibrating erratically) I thought it might be an injector fault, although she didn't write this down in the Work sheet.

I've also contacted Barclaycard stating that I am in dispute with the John R. Weir for two unsuccessful repairs. They should contact me back within 3 days to discuss this. (I used the Contact Us option online)

Hopefully this leads to a positive result, but until then its gonna be a few more sleepless nights,

And yes, it is a diesel. Does that make a difference?

Raz.

Steve_xx

The thing is, as a layman you dont understand fully how cars work. That's why when they go wrong you pay for the problem to be sorted by those that are supposed to understand these things. Essentially, their knowledge, competence and skill in diagnosing the problem and subsequently effecting a suitable repair is what you elect to pay for.

You have a dual prong of attack here. You can pursue it with the garage in the way that you have detailed, you must do that first, and if you are not satisfied with that you can pass the problem to Barclaycard. Be firm with Barclaycard if they wont play ball, be confident when you speak to them that you know your rights under the Act and that they will have to pick up the tab if there's no resolution with your own efforts with the garage.

In the end Barclaycard may refund you, and they may reclaim their loss from the garage.

gilbert_and_sullivan

You didn't make it clear the make of your car in your fist post, if i'd known it was an MB i'd have suggested coming away from the dealership anyway for servicing and posting the question on the MB forum (which i see you have).

I own an older MB (wouldn't own a later one) and i'm fortunate in having one of the most capable MB specialist indies look after my car.
I urge you once the garage have sorted this problem to enquire on the MB forum for a recommended specialist indy in your area and use them in future.
This also means you speak to the man doing the job and not via some probably non technical service receptionist.

My own man has saved my thousands of pounds over the last 10 years or so we've been customers there, and the car which is now coming up to 14 years runs as well as when it left the factory.
I wouldn't name him here or elsewhere as he has quite enough work that he's rushed off his feet like most good mech's.