Ticket not visible to warden - first appeal refused

dtnewick

A couple of weeks ago, I bought a ticket & placed on the dashboard. I received a fine for "failing to display a pay & display ticket". It seems that the ticket must have fallen off the dashboard onto the floor when I closed the door. The ticket is valid from the local council (thanks to MSE for providing details to check all of this). I appealed & it has been turned down. The photo on the letter is not conclusive - i.e. cannot see if there is a ticket on the screen or not. The next stage seems to wait until I receive the Notice to Owner (NtO) letter.

Questions to all:
1. Is the appeal worth continuing - lose right to pay half the fine if I lose?
2. Is there examples of winning cases such as this?
3. Should I write to the council to say that I will be appealing or just wait for the NtO to arrive?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

As shown in the sticky 'how to post images' I'd suggest you'd be best to post here for experts to see, pics of:

- the PCN (front and back), )

- the notice of rejection of appeal

- the signs where you parked

- the bay where you parked, including pics of both of the end termination lines

These are likely to be the best chance of being successful in any appeal. Most Council tickets posted about on pepipoo.com can be successfully appealed, but more often than not, appealed based on recognised flaws in the above details rather than (sadly) weak arguments about tickets not being displayed.

HTH

biscuitdunker

Did you not keep the ticket as evidence? Or did they turn down your appeal despite this?

dtnewick

I kept the ticket & sent it off with the appeal (took a copy), but appeal still refused.

Coupon-mad: all accept that it may be weak argument about ticket not being displayed. That's why I am asking on here if there is evidence of the excuse being accepted or not.

biscuitdunker

dtnewick wrote: »

I kept the ticket & sent it off with the appeal (took a copy), but appeal still refused.

Coupon-mad: all accept that it may be weak argument about ticket not being displayed. That's why I am asking on here if there is evidence of the excuse being accepted or not.

There is nearly always a valid reason to appeal a PCN. The problem is that many councils don't consider appeals properly until they're under pressure and will basically reject all informal and formal appeals automatically until it reaches the adjudicator, at which point they often pull out and cancel the PCN, or go to adjudication and lose.

You have a very valid reason to appeal, you did purchase a ticket. You have evidence of this, in that you have a copy of your ticket. I don't think you'd lose at adjudication with that evidence.

There's also a very good chance that they have made a mistake somewhere in the ticket or in the letters they've sent you. It is worth scanning all your documents, blanking out any personal info, and posting it up here and on pepipoo for people who know about such things to take a look at. There may be more than one valid reason to appeal your ticket!

1984ReturnsForReal_2

If the council cant supply photos covering your whole dashboard you should win an appeal.

As you have a valid ticket (concrete evidence) they have to show it wasnt displayed & a couple of shots showing bits of your dashboard proves nothing other than the warden not doing their job properly. IMO they would have to show every inch or your dashboard in focus with no ticket.

Coupon-mad

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

If the council cant supply photos covering your whole dashboard you should win an appeal.

As you have a valid ticket (concrete evidence) they have to show it wasnt displayed & a couple of shots showing bits of your dashboard proves nothing other than the warden not doing their job properly. IMO they would have to show every inch or your dashboard in focus with no ticket.

I agree, I reckon they probably would have to prove beyond any doubt that there was no ticket displayed. But it would probably have to go to adjudication as some Councils don't like giving in early and like to force people to the end of the process before folding just before the hearing.

But relying on one point of appeal when there could potentially be several, seems a missed opportunity to make the appeal much stronger, IMHO.

If the OP would like to post scans/pics here as requested, I was hoping someone on here could help with the success of the appeal by adding other points of contention AS WELL as the 'his word against them' argument. There are very often non-compliant details in the whole PCN process which are not apparent unless you know what to look for.

Until they see the PCN wording and the bays/lines/signs, how can the experts on here be expected to comment further? It's a big step for the OP to rely just on one appeal point - and ignoring any others isn't advisable, IMHO. What's to lose with posting up some pics?

fay_davies_2

Please can anyone give me some advice, ive received a parking fine from a private company for not displaying a valid parking ticket. On return to my vehicle i found my ticket had blown off the dash board and was on the floor. The parking fine issued states 'no ticket' as i had purchased a valid ticket, should i ignore it?

peter_the_piper

Yes, Yes, Yes. See the many other posts if you are at all unsure. There are many where posters have ignored and never heard from them after about 6 bits of mail.

Coupon-mad

fay_davies wrote: »

Please can anyone give me some advice, ive received a parking fine from a private company for not displaying a valid parking ticket. On return to my vehicle i found my ticket had blown off the dash board and was on the floor. The parking fine issued states 'no ticket' as i had purchased a valid ticket, should i ignore it?

Yes, you must ignore the ticket and all the threatening letters which follow. They will give up and nothing will happen to you or your credit rating. It's a scam.

Newbies reading this should bear in mind this is not the case with the original ticket posted on this thread by dtnewick, which is completely different because that's a 'proper' PCN from a Council.

dtnewick

Well, almost 3 months after the PCN, I've just received the Notice to Owner. Coupon mad: I never got round to posting copies of PCN, as I had thought it had gone away. Would you still advise posting details here - PCN &/or NtO?