Advice on rights as tenants

BattyMatty

Thanks for all the help guys.

Having sought advice from a solicitor, I have it in writing that the law is in our favour in this position! There is no provision for the LL to demolish/redevelop whilst we are still in our initial term of the AST. He can still use ground 6 if he wants whilst we are in the fixed term, but cannot gain possession until the term is over.

Time to wait now and see if he wants to offer us anything to move, which in principle we would be willing to do if he is reasonable about it!

PasturesNew

Officially, the term is: he can f*ck RIGHT off!
He can't enter/turf you out either - he could go to jail for that as it'd be harrassment.

Just laugh in his face .....

Brallaqueen

I think the Landlord has been reasonable - the letter is not a get the hell out right now letter, it is I wish to do X please request (not demand, not force them) that they do Y.

He has nothing to lose and done nothing wrong by asking politely if you would leave, and TBH the problem seems to be the agent who says to you "yes he can do this, trust us, he can" which is patently BS and is probably saying to the Landlord "yes they will, you can trust us, you can"

zet_2

BattyMatty wrote: »

... Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement, which commenced on 1st September 2009

...we did a planning permission search for the property on the council website, and it seems that the landlord got permission to demolish and redevelop about a month before we moved in, if that has any bearing on the situation?

So he got planning permission a month before you moved in, and then decided to offer and sign an AST. I think this is very disingenuous. He seemed to have no intention of honouring the agreement he signed. He let you move in under false pretenses.

I would ask my solicitor, at the very least, to demand the cost of moving in and moving out to a new place.

You acted on the basis of his false pretense, so their may be other losses you have suffered (e.g. if you joined a gym nearby or whatever).

clutton_2

what sort of agent passes this onto a tenant - if they know its illegal - why pass it on - if they dont know its illegal they should not be in the business....

BattyMatty

Thought all of you guys who gave such good advice would like an update on the situation.

We contacted the agents and let them know that we knew we didn't have to leave and they... served us with a section 21 notice (at 20.30 on New Year's Eve!!!!) They claimed that there was a break clause in section 9.1 of our contract. This section reads;

9.1 The Landlord/Agent may end this Agreement by giving the Tenant at least two calendar months written notice in accordance with Section 21 of the Housing Act 1988, requiring possession of the Property on a date specified on the notice. Service of such notice will be in accordance with the provisions of S196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and will either be given to you at the Commencement, or will be hand delivered to the Property by the Landlord or his agent. If the Landlord/Agent is aware that you ahve moved to another address, he will also send a copy of the notice to that address by first class post. This notice can be served at ant time but possession cannot be recovered by the Landlord/Agent until the end of the fixed term or before 6 months has lapsed from the Commencement, whichever is the later. If the Tenant gives up possession of the Property before the date specified in the notice, the Agreement ends on the date specified on the notice unless you are leaving earlier in accordance with the terms of yours termination notice. Upon expiry of the Landlord/Agents notice, he may make a claim to the court for recovery of possession of the property.

The Section 21 is set to expire on 28th Feb 2010, but on the front page of our contract, it clearly states the Commencement as being 1st September 2009, the initial term as being 12 months, and the end of the term as being 29th August 2010, so I think I'm right in thinking a section 21 wouldn't be valid unless it expired no earlier than 29th August 2010?

We have now enlisted the aid of a solicitor, who is contacting the agents on our behalf. Hopefully the whole thing will be sorted soon... it's pretty stressful. In another turn of events, it transpires that he also owns next door, where his ex-wife and son lived, who he has now turfed out and begun building works. Bah.

Happy New Year everyone!

Matt

DVardysShadow

BattyMatty wrote: »

...They claimed that there was a break clause in section 9.1 of our contract. This section reads;

9.1 The Landlord/Agent may end this Agreement by giving the Tenant at least two calendar months written notice in accordance with Section 21 of the Housing Act 1988, requiring possession of the Property on a date specified on the notice. Service of such notice will be in accordance with the provisions of S196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and will either be given to you at the Commencement, or will be hand delivered to the Property by the Landlord or his agent. If the Landlord/Agent is aware that you ahve moved to another address, he will also send a copy of the notice to that address by first class post. This notice can be served at ant time but possession cannot be recovered by the Landlord/Agent until the end of the fixed term or before 6 months has lapsed from the Commencement, whichever is the later. ...

The Section 21 is set to expire on 28th Feb 2010, but on the front page of our contract, it clearly states the Commencement as being 1st September 2009, the initial term as being 12 months, and the end of the term as being 29th August 2010, so I think I'm right in thinking a section 21 wouldn't be valid unless it expired no earlier than 29th August 2010?

We have now enlisted the aid of a solicitor, who is contacting the agents on our behalf. Hopefully the whole thing will be sorted soon... it's pretty stressful. In another turn of events, it transpires that he also owns next door, where his ex-wife and son lived, who he has now turfed out and begun building works. Bah.

Do you really need a solicitor to interpret "but possession cannot be recovered by the Landlord/Agent until the end of the fixed term or before 6 months has lapsed from the Commencement, whichever is the later. ?

Personally, i would just write back "Thanks for the Section 21 Notice, please refer to section 9.1 of the tenancy agreement" and I wouldn't bother to interpret it to them until they contacted me nearer to their expected day of turfing me out

clutton_2

summed ups the thread in a T

"""i would just write back Thanks for the Section 21 Notice, please refer to section 9.1 of the tenancy agreement"

good luck

franklee

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Do you really need a solicitor to interpret "but possession cannot be recovered by the Landlord/Agent until the end of the fixed term or before 6 months has lapsed from the Commencement, whichever is the later. ?

It's clear six months is the earliest the S21 can take effect as a standard but the tenancy was for a year so what happens in the following six months isn't clear. That's not a break clause, it's about how to serve the S21 and obviously, in the OP's case, the end of the fixed term is the later, so hardly a break in the fixed term. The OP should be looking again for a break clause and to be valid it really should allow the tenant equal rights to break same as the landlord. So yes get it looked at properly IMO but make sure it's someone who specialises in landlord and tenant stuff. OP, Try asking on landlord zone too they have better legal knowledge than here, type up the exact break clauses for both LL and T to break when you find them and include in your post.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

PS: The OP shouldn't take the agents word that the break clause, if there is one, is in that section as if there is a break clause that isn't it. Also note that although an agreement can state the break should be exercised with an S21 that's not necessary.

BattyMatty

That's the only clause which details when the LL can end the contract apart from the section 8 clauses, so it looks like there is no proper break clause.

There is certainly no clause which allows us equal rights to leave the contact either. The agreement states we must give 1 month notice, and that this can only come into effect after the fixed term is over, so no get out after 6 months for us :P

We have a solicitor looking at the contract, but I think I'll probably try replying once more, suggesting they read their own contract (I'm not actually sure that they can, all communications they have sent us are riddled with typos) to understand why we are not obliged to leave. If they still don't get it, then the solicitor can communicate them and hopefully get them to understand.

As an aside, I'm guessing if this did go to court, the judge would get to see the tenancy agreement? And that way he would see that the LL is just being a joker and bin the case?

Also, for those interested, I've uploaded an anonymous version of the contract (all addresses/names etc. deleted) for people to peruse at http://img94.imageshack.us/g/1anon.jpg/

I'll also check out LLZ, thanks for the suggestions

Matt