Advice on rights as tenants

BattyMatty

Hi there!

I am currently renting a 4 bedroom house with 3 other people (duh ) on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement, which commenced on 1st September 2009 and is due to end on 31st August 2010. It is rented through a letting agency working on behalf of a landlord and is between the agency and ourselves.

Everything has been going swimmingly, until this Saturday. We were visited by the people who run the agency, who sat down and showed us a letter sent by the landlord, which said:

"Dear <Name of Agency>

I wish to demolish and redevelop <property name>. Please request that the current occupiers vacate the premises by 31st January 2010.

Regards,

<Landlord>"

They then told us that he is allowed to do this, but that the agency is willing to help us find alternative accommodation to replace it. They then showed us a dismal house which is a couple of miles further out than where we currently live, which we declined. Having since looked at resources online at the citizens advice bureau, from what we can understand, we are under no legal obligation to leave the premises until the term is over (31st August 2010).

We are not in breach of the contract in any way, we have never been behind on rent and the house is looked after as stipulated by the contract. The only other additional piece of information is that we did a planning permission search for the property on the council website, and it seems that the landlord got permission to demolish and redevelop about a month before we moved in, if that has any bearing on the situation?

Have we correctly interpreted out rights in this situation? Or is he perfectly able to do this? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Regards, and a Merry Christmas!

Matt

adg1

You have both signed a legally binding contract protecting your tenancy until the 31st August 2010. Unless there is a break clause then I think both sides have to adhere to those dates.

For example, if he sold the house to a person who wanted to live there then your contract would have to be honoured prior to the new owners moving in.

Unless you agree some form of early release with the landlord then I think he has no right to do this (I'm sure a legal brain will be along soon to confirm/deny this.

If he truly is hell bent on the bulldozers moving in then ask him to pay your costs of finding a new house (admin fees/time off work etc).

Check your contract for a break clause poste haste though it'd only be at the 6 month point at the earliest making 31st Jan still well in advance.

clutton_2

you cannot be forced to leave before the end of the fixed term (or 6 months if there is a break clause - this would take you to end of Feb) - but even then the LL needs to take out a Court summons to get you out, and even then you dont have to move, the LL would have to go back to court to get a Bailiffs Warrant....

so, all in this could take months and months and months

it would be in his interest to pay you a decent sum to move... (let him come to that conclusion himself) you are in a very powerful position......

......

tbs624

Matt - you may want to read through the Housing Act 1988, Schedule 2, Ground 6:

Part I
Grounds on which Court must order possession

Ground 6
The landlord who is seeking possession or, if that landlord is a registered housing association or charitable housing trust, a superior landlord intends to demolish or reconstruct the whole or a substantial part of the dwelling-house or to carry out substantial works on the dwelling-house or any part thereof or any building of which it forms part and the following conditions are fulfilled—

(a) the intended work cannot reasonably be carried out without the tenant giving up possession of the dwelling-house because—


(i) the tenant is not willing to agree to such a variation of the terms of the tenancy as would give such access and other facilities as would permit the intended work to be carried out, or
(ii) the nature of the intended work is such that no such variation is practicable, or
(iii) the tenant is not willing to accept an assured tenancy of such part only of the dwelling-house (in this sub-paragraph referred to as “the reduced part”) as would leave in the possession of his landlord so much of the dwelling-house as would be reasonable to enable the intended work to be carried out and, where appropriate, as would give such access and other facilities over the reduced part as would permit the intended work to be carried out, or
(iv) the nature of the intended work is such that such a tenancy is not practicable; and


(b) either the landlord seeking possession acquired his interest in the dwelling-house before the grant of the tenancy or that interest was in existence at the time of that grant and neither that landlord (or, in the case of joint landlords, any of them) nor any other person who, alone or jointly with others, has acquired that interest since that time acquired it for money or money’s worth; and


(c) the assured tenancy on which the dwelling-house is let did not come into being by virtue of any provision of Schedule 1 to the [1977 c. 42.] Rent Act 1977, as amended by Part I of Schedule 4 to this Act or, as the case may be, section 4 of the [1976 c. 80.] Rent (Agriculture) Act 1976, as amended by Part II of that Schedule.

For the purposes of this ground, if, immediately before the grant of the tenancy, the tenant to whom it was granted or, if it was granted to joint tenants, any of them was the tenant or one of the joint tenants under an earlier assured tenancy of the dwelling-house concerned, any reference in paragraph (b) above to the grant of the tenancy is a reference to the grant of that earlier assured tenancy."


Clearly this LL has behaved in an appalling fashion. Unfortunately, the LA acts for the LL so you will get limited help there - there only concern will be not to lose good tenants who can be earning them commission.


The local Council has a Tenancy Relations Officer who deals solely with private sector rentals and they can advise you, as can Shelter 0808 800 4444 or Community Legal Advice 0845 345 4 345.

theartfullodger

Couple of points....


a) Re...

It is rented through a letting agency working on behalf of a landlord and is between the agency and ourselves.

- Nope, the contract is between yourselves (the tenants) and the Landlord: The agent is just that, his agent, signing on his behalf but the deal, responsibilities etc. etc. are with the Landlord (You do have his address?? Without it rent-is-not-due...)
b) I'd write the Landlord (copy agent, keep copy) a calm sober letter stating you will continue with your current tenancy and he can go f*** 'isself...
but...
c) You might ask the agent to find out how much the Landlord is willing to offer you to surrender the tenancy early: In your shoes I'd want thousands....
d) If you choose to dig your heels in and refuse to leave to end of fixed term.., you still don't have to leave then (31st Aug 2010) ... he needs a court possession order ... even with one of them you don't have to leave,, he needs the Bailiffs to carry you out... probably a couple of months beyond end of fixed term... You might want to let the agents know you know this...

Cheers! Have a good Xmas & don't let the b******s get you down...

Lodger (Landlord since 2000)...

BattyMatty

Thanks tbs624 - but looking at guides to Assured Short Term Tenancies on communitiesgov.uk/publications/housing/assuredassuredtenants , the following is stated:

"6.6 Can the landlord ask me to leave during the fixed term of a
shorthold tenancy?
The landlord can only seek possession during a fixed term of the tenancy if one of
the following grounds for possession in Appendix C apply – grounds 2, 8, 10 to
15 or 17 – and the terms of the tenancy make provision for it to be ended on any
of these grounds. It is for the court to decide whether one or more of the
grounds for possession apply.
6.7 Can the landlord ask me to leave if I am an assured tenant?
The landlord can only seek possession during a fixed term of the tenancy if one of
the following grounds for possession in Appendix C apply – grounds 2, 8, 10 to
15 or 17 – and the terms of the tenancy make provision for it to be ended on any
of these grounds. Once the fixed term of the tenancy has ended, he or she can
seek possession if one or more of the 17 grounds for possession in Appendix C
apply. It is for the court to decide whether one or more of the grounds for
possession apply."

So it looks like ground 6 only applies outside of the initial fixed term?

tbs624

BattyMatty wrote: »

So it looks like ground 6 only applies outside of the initial fixed term?

Yes S6 is what the LL would be hoping to apply in his "request" that you vacate. Use the TRO - they can liaise direct with the LL.

princeofpounds

grounds 2, 8, 10 to
15 or 17

Yes, these are the only ground applicable during a fixed term. Ground 6 can only be served through a section 21 notice to apply after the end of the fixed period.

Unless there is a break clause, the LL is screwed. Good.

clutton_2

OP needs to put everything in writing from now on

theartfullodger

Sorry guys I think I was wrong in post # 5... I think this ground is valid, although I'd add a few points...

a) I believe if the paperwork is correct (and he really does intend to redevelop me must give 2 months notice). Clearly last saturday to 31/1/2010 ain't 2 months...
b) Contact Shelter
http://england.shelter.org.uk/
0808 800 4444
8am-8pm Monday-Friday
8am-5pm Saturday-Sunday
(be patient - they are a charity & there is too much demand...)


- this is a specialist area and I think you need specialist advice...
c) I'd ask for proof he really does want to demolish (eg planning permission, contract with builder.. plans for whatever happens next...)_ to make sure he's not just wanting you out...
d) I think the Notice needs to be served as a Section 8 notice see..
http://landlordzone.co.uk/grounds_for_possession.htm
(which confirms 2 months needed for ground 6...)
e) Even if it is valid you can prevaricate and delay - wait for court order & bailiffs so asking for $$$£££ to go would still be valid...
&
http://www.howto.co.uk/property/landlords-advice/ending_tenancies/

PoP where does it say Ground 6 only applies after fixed term?? I've re-read Grnd 6 in
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Primary&PageNumber=4&BrowseLetter=H&NavFrom=1&parentActiveTextDocId=2128236&ActiveTextDocId=2128477&filesize=524
- and can't find it..

- but then I'm not that bright...

Cheers!

Lodger

princeofpounds

PoP where does it say Ground 6 only applies after fixed term?? I've re-read Grnd 6 in
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content...7&filesize=524
- and can't find it..

It wouldn't be contained within the ground itself.

TBH I have yet to trace it back to statute, but there are plenty of seemingly reliable references I have seen to this effect and they all give the same list.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/116263-landlords-claim-possession-example.html

Guide from colchester Council (see pages 8-10)
http://www.colchester.gov.uk/servedoc.asp?filename=Essential_Guide_Chapter_7__Phil_.pdf

and from islington council (see page 8)
http://www.islington.gov.uk/DownloadableDocuments/Housing/Pdf/factsheet4.PDF