Confused by extra traffic lights on roundabout - is it just me?

System

Look at the Hollinswood Interchange in Telford. The lights on the roundabout cause havoc at rush hour! Primarily because they are totally out of sync with the lights on the approach roads

DrScotsman

usignuolo wrote: »

In practice, if the traffic lights on the approach to the roundabout turn orange as you pass through them, and you don't realise there is a second set as well, you accelerate to cross the roundabout, and don't have time to stop safely when you find yourself a second later at a second set of lights on red.

You're not making sense here.

Think about it, the only way that there can be lights on the approach to the roundabout that mean "go" and "stop" (i.e. not "give way" and "stop") is if there are also lights on the roundabout itself, otherwise you would have to give way as the traffic already on the roundabout would have priority. Hence by going through a light controlled roundabout there HAS to be lights in the roundabout, including second set that you mention. In other words the existence of the approach lights means the second set HAS to exist.

If there were lights but you still had to give way then they would be a bit further away from where you enter the roundabout.

Wig

computershack wrote: »

No. Perhaps you should try driving with your eyes open and at a suitable speed. In fact, why not try driving as you were taught and applying the rule that AMBER MEANS STOP, NOT PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN. The problem is one of your own making by your insistence on trying to beat the lights.

You obviously did not read what OP wrote, how can you come to that warped interpretation of what he said from what you quoted him saying?

Wig

DrScotsman wrote: »

You're not making sense here.

Think about it, the only way that there can be lights on the approach to the roundabout that mean "go" and "stop" (i.e. not "give way" and "stop") is if there are also lights on the roundabout itself, otherwise you would have to give way as the traffic already on the roundabout would have priority. Hence by going through a light controlled roundabout there HAS to be lights in the roundabout, including second set that you mention. In other words the existence of the approach lights means the second set HAS to exist.

If there were lights but you still had to give way then they would be a bit further away from where you enter the roundabout.

This makes perfect sense on the face of it, but there is an exception, which may or may not exist in practice.

Yes I agree for there to be lights on an approach road to a roundabout there has to be lights as you enter the roundabout to your immediate right, which must be on red if yours are on green, but that is where the logic ends, because there may be no other lights on any of the other approach roads. This may be unlikely, might even be unlawful according to the TSRGD, but the fact is until it can be shown that the TSRGD stipulates that where one approach road has lights then all approach roads must also have lights, we simply don't know if it is the case or not.

Wig

usignuolo wrote: »

As I understand the Highway code, once you are over the white line you have to continue even if it means going through a red light....

The roundabouts concerned are not that large but they are very busy and it is not easy to see with the lorries etc, what the lights ahead are doing if you are in a small car. (These are main through roads with lots of goods traffic, big lorries, buses etc). The lights on the roundabout are offset a bit from those on the approach road and can be hard to see if the traffic is stacked up ahead (which it often is with large lorries etc).

Due to the layout of the roads and roundabouts, in two cases I can think of, the middle light is not visible until about ten yards before the approach light and only then if there is no tall traffic on the roundabout.

Also you can go through on green changing to orange at the tail end of a queue and be faced with a red light in the middle within the space of time it takes to arrive at the middle. I saw it happen to someone in front of me tonight.

As has been already pointed out your understanding of the highway code is not correct. When changing from green to Amber you must only continue if to stop could cause an accident, if you are already through and they change (you may see a 3rd set of lights in front of your car, with the main sets of lights obviously behind you at this time) then obviously you continue. Your attention is primarily forwards so you should be able to see the next set of "on roundabout" lights ahead of you also changing or have changed, in which case slow down and stop at the line.
There is no circumstance where the lights have reached red for you to have any discretion on continuing.

I'm afraid I don't imagine any scenario where you could be unable to stop at the second set of lights, whether due to big lorries or suddenly arriving at them and being unaware they are there. How about a google sat location?

computershack

Wig wrote: »

You obviously did not read what OP wrote, how can you come to that warped interpretation of what he said from what you quoted him saying?

Which part of "
In practice, if the traffic lights on the approach to the roundabout turn orange as you pass through them, and you don't realise there is a second set as well, you accelerate to cross the roundabout, and don't have time to stop safely when you find yourself a second later at a second set of lights on red."

...isn't someone putting their foot down to get through the amber light? They certainly haven't approached them preparing to stop and the "you accelerate to cross the roundabout" strongly suggests they put their foot down to get through.

Wig

computershack wrote: »

strongly suggests they put their foot down to get through.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
I'm sorry I thought we were discussing absolutes here not conjecture.

DrScotsman

Wig wrote: »

This makes perfect sense on the face of it, but there is an exception, which may or may not exist in practice...

Good point, I stand corrected. However my overall point still stands: as you said this is a very unlikely scenario and hence you should be prepared to stop/slow for the 99% chance that there are traffic lights situated soon after entering the roundabout. In fact even if only 50% of light controlled roundabouts followed my model then you should be prepared, the OP is very naive

aqueoushumour01

computershack wrote: »

Which part of "

...isn't someone putting their foot down to get through the amber light? They certainly haven't approached them preparing to stop and the "you accelerate to cross the roundabout" strongly suggests they put their foot down to get through.

you could go through the first set while it's green, and then it could suddenly change to amber once you're through - then the second set could turn amber/red if you don't get to it quickly enough. So, what do you do - stop in the middle of the roundabout? that's what the OPs effectively asking.

Wig

DrScotsman wrote: »

Good point, I stand corrected. However my overall point still stands: as you said this is a very unlikely scenario and hence you should be prepared to stop/slow for the 99% chance that there are traffic lights situated soon after entering the roundabout. In fact even if only 50% of light controlled roundabouts followed my model then you should be prepared, the OP is very naive

Agreed, but I wouldn't say naive (sounds a bit strong) just did not think it through enough, which you can forgive them for because it's not a train of logical thought that everyone who approaches a roundabout automatically goes through. I'm sure the OP will now see the logic in the argument and will now always drive in expectation of 'on roundabout' lights where they pass through 'approach road' lights.