Royal Mail Special Delivery Lost Item

Marty06

Hi: I have the following situation and would appreciate any thoughts/advice

I sent away passports and other important documents in connection with a visa application to the Home Office. Included in the original envelope was a self-addressed Special Delivery envelope. I asked for full insurance on this return envelope but was told that I couldn't purchase extra insurance as I wouldn't be the sender of the item. I queried this with the Postmaster who assured me this was correct.

Now the Special Delivery return envelope has gone missing and I'm trying to work out what I can claim. I know I have £500 automatically covered, but the cost of replacing the passports and applying for the visa again will be around £1000.

Was the Post office right to tell me that I couldn't buy extra insurance for the return Special Delivery envelope? And if this is true, was it actually the responsibility of the Home Office as the sender of the item to have ensured that the item was properly insured to its full value? If it is not true, do I have a claim against the Post Office for giving me wrong information when they sold me the product?

Royal Mail customer services won't give me any clear answers, and say I need to speak to the Post Office. The Home Office just say it is between Royal Mail and me and that they will charge me the full price for reapplying for the visa if it has been lost, even though it was them that sent it to me.

Anyone been in a similar position or does anyone know the legality of the situation?

Marty06

I know I'm partly answering my own post here...but I've just spoken to a friend who used to work in Passport office and he says that the Post Office were probably right on this issue, and that the Home Office are wrong when they are telling me that it is between me and Royal Mail. He says the sender always remains liable for the documents until they have been signed for by me, thus signalling they are back in my posesssion. The issue of who paid for the Special Delivery envelope is irrelevant and doesn't suddenly make me more liable than if I'd let them pay for a slower, regular return service.

This fits with what I think the law is for distance sale of goods, which is that the seller remains responsible for goods until receipt (which, after all, is why sellers use trackable mail services to prove that you really have the goods and stop you from calling up to ask for a free second item!) and that it is therefore up to the sender if they want to buy extra insurance to indemnify themselves against loss. I'm just not sure whether this a general legal principle and whether it could be extended to visas and passports. I certainly paid for the service, so does sale of goods act law apply? It not, what can I point to if Home Office refuse to play?

Comments still welcome!

custardy

how did the home office actually return your items?
did they send it via SD?

Marty06

Hi yes - they sent it in the SD envelope I provided - that's how I knew it was meant to be coming as I noted down the tracking number and was checking the Royal Mail website for it.

custardy

Marty06 wrote: »

Hi yes - they sent it in the SD envelope I provided - that's how I knew it was meant to be coming as I noted down the tracking number and was checking the Royal Mail website for it.

yes they used your envelope but did they send it SD?
just dropping an item is a mail sack in an SD envelope wont make it an SD
these have to be handled seperatly even for large mailing organizations
if they popped it in their mail sacks along with all the other mail then its not SD

Marty06

Well I assume it was posted SD because the tracking number activated on Wednesday evening and the Special Delivery Track and Trace page told me the item would be delivered by 1pm the next day, I think that would only happen if it was going through the SD route. Unfortunately it got lost somewhere along the way and Royal Mail say they don't know where. Their best suggestion is that the whole bag of SD stuff got sent to the wrong mail centre - but they've completely lost the tracking for all the items (which is apparently not really possible in theory, but can happen in pracitce I've been told).

geordie_joe

custardy wrote: »

yes they used your envelope but did they send it SD?
just dropping an item is a mail sack in an SD envelope wont make it an SD
these have to be handled seperatly even for large mailing organizations
if they popped it in their mail sacks along with all the other mail then its not SD

That is not actually the point of the post. The point is clear from this bit

"The Home Office just say it is between Royal Mail and me and that they will charge me the full price for reapplying for the visa if it has been lost,"

The HO are saying "We posted it, if it is lost that is between you and the PO"

This is wrong, the contract is between the HO and the PO, not the PO and the person it was posted to.

It doesn't actually mater how the item was posted, the OP has no contract with the PO therefore can't claim anything from them. Only the HO can claim as they are the ones with the contract with the PO.

Marty06

Thanks Geordie Joe - what you say seems right to me the more I think about it!

It can't be up to me to sort it out with Royal Mail. After all, I've got no proof that a Home Office employee isn't in league with a Royal Mail employee to trigger the track and trace numbers then steal the documents (I've got no proof that this is happening either, by the way... ) But my point is, I can't have liability for the items until I've acknowledged receipt. What you say makes good sense: the contract for sending is between the Home Office and Royal Mail and they must remain liable until I've said I've received it.

Just one question, though: since I paid for the postage (i.e. I bought the Special Delivery envelope, addressed it to myself and then included it in the original packet I sent to the HO (which incidentally is exactly what they recommended me to do) does this make any difference? I'm assuming that, in law, all I've done is pay the postage - like buying Amazon Prime delivery or, indeed, like just putting some first class stamps in the envelope. And I assume that this is why the Post Office told me I couldn't actually insure the SD envelope I bought when I oringnally purchased it from them (which I didn't quite understand at the time, but now see that it is probably because it wouldn't be me actually sending it, and thus not me who was able to claim compensation - just like if you paid for next day Amazon delivery and it didn't come, then it doesn't make you liable for the goods that Amazon sent and it would be up to them to sort out the claim for the lost items with their delivery agency)

However, I do want to claim the money back for the actual service I purchased (i.e. the cost of the Special Delivery gaurnteed 1pm service, which they obviously failed to deliver on...- compared with the passports and the other stuff actually in the envelope, this is a very small amount, but still...). I was originally thinking I would put in a claim form to Royal Mail for this. But having thought this through now, my inclincation is that technically all that has happened is that, as well as losing the passports, visa and other documents, the Home Office have also lost the Special Delivery envelope I sent them ( I know it's actually RM that have lost them, but I'm talking legal liability), and so, when I come to write my official letter to the HO, I simply need to send them a list of all the costs incurred by me because of the loss (new passport, new visa application, Special Delivery envelope). Making a separate claim for the postage costs would just confuse things. If the package turns up, then I'll make the claim to RM for the failed service; but if not then I need to leave it all to the HO's responsibility.

Does this sound right?

custardy

geordie_joe wrote: »

That is not actually the point of the post. The point is clear from this bit

"The Home Office just say it is between Royal Mail and me and that they will charge me the full price for reapplying for the visa if it has been lost,"

The HO are saying "We posted it, if it is lost that is between you and the PO"

This is wrong, the contract is between the HO and the PO, not the PO and the person it was posted to.

It doesn't actually mater how the item was posted, the OP has no contract with the PO therefore can't claim anything from them. Only the HO can claim as they are the ones with the contract with the PO.

i was trying to gain info to help he OP on what the home office did and perhaps try and see where the items would be
but hey you have it all covered so i will leave you to it