Help! Halifax threatening court over £300. All of which is charges.

jlb1986

Hi everyone. Hopefully one of the many people on here can offer me some advice.

I have a current account with Halifax and due to having gone slightly over my overdraft I have been the victim of a charge snowball. When I lost my job and wasn't able to repay my overdraft straight away the charges started coming. Then Halifax took away my arranged overdraft which meant they started charging me on a monthly basis for being over my overdraft. They said they would only stop doing so once I agreed to a repayment plan. I refused to do this on the grounds that I wasn't going to repay money which they owed me. Also as I am unemployed an on benefits I couldn't afford what they were asking of me anyway.

Now Halifax claim I owe them £350 and have employed the services of a debt collection agency to threaten me with court repeatedly.

The £350 is entirely made up of charges as I've now paid back the amount of my original overdraft.

Now I don't know what to do. Surely having to wait for the OFT to make an announcement means they keep chasing me and could take me to court? I can't enter a sound defence because nobody is clear on the points of law at the minute but each week that goes by means another letter from the collection agency.

Am I right in thinking that Halifax can't default me on a disputed debt? If so how can I dispute it without anybody knowing what the true argument is from a legal perspective?

I want to write to Halifax disputing the debt but have no idea what I'm supposed to say and it's not just as easy as sitting and waiting for an announcement that we have no idea when to expect.

Help appreciated!

Premier_2

jlb1986 wrote: »

...Am I right in thinking that Halifax can't default me on a disputed debt? If so how can I dispute it without anybody knowing what the true argument is from a legal perspective? ...

You can't dispute a charge, unless you have grounds to suggest to the creditor the charge may not be correct.

If you could simply dispute any bill you get, people would dispute them all, telephone, gas, electric, water, etc.

With respect to bank charges on unauthorised overdrafts, look here, http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/bank-charges

and particularly

How likely is it I will get my money back?
A. Much less likely than prior to the Supreme Court result, but not impossible. Still, the best thing to do is plan for getting nothing, ...

which you don't appear to be doing.

jlb1986

I am aware I cannot dispute it without having grounds to do so. That was my point.

Disputing an electricity bill because you simply don't want to pay it is hardly the same as disputing a debt that the bank have created themselves out of thin air that consists entirely of charges that many people on this site, including Martin Lewis, appear to believe are unlawful. I've paid back the original amount I borrowed. That is the opinion of most people is it not? Or have I missed something?

I'm asking for some advice on what people in my situation could do if the OFT don't decide to pursue the new legal arguments. Mine is not simply a case of expecting to get money back I've already paid, what I am saying is Halifax are asking me to pay money which I can't afford to pay which consists entirely of charges that most people think are unlawful.

I appreciate your response but I am very aware of all the information on the page you linked me to having successfully claimed charges back from HSBC in the past. It seems you have misunderstood my situation.

orc_2

Hi and welcome.

We need to hang fire at the moment and not submit any new claims.

Why?? Well firstly, to make sure the OFT decide to proceed with the bank charges cause, under new legal grounds, which there may be. (Supreme Court decision gave hope on that.) The OFT announcement is very, very important, but not necessarily the end of the road if it is negative. It may however, provide an easier option for claimants and a quicker one.

Failing that, there is the possibility of FSA action and possible government intervention.

In tandem with that, there is the possibility of a class action.

Surrounding all of that, there is the process of new claim templates being developed using new grounds. Those will be available later at an appropriate time.

For your own situation, it may be possible to calmly negotiate with your bank, outlining your circumstances and explaining priority debts. However, there is no guarentee this will be successful, at this time, I'm afraid.

jlb1986

What grounds do you mean to negotiate on? I'm not in a position to start paying money to them as previously they've said they'll only accept something in the region of £30-40 a month. If it turns out we have no scope on reclaiming then obviously I'll have to pay the amount back but I'm not prepared to pay what I can't afford when there's still a chance of having the charges lifted.

Surely even if I shouldn't file a claim with the courts yet it wouldn't hurt to use Section 5, as my reasons for disputing the debt in my communication with the bank, prior to reaching the court stage. I imagine by the time several letters have gone back and forward we'll have an OFT announcement.

I was thinking about saying something like:

"I believe that, as these charges subsidise the cost of banking services provided to those in credit, this creates a significant in-balance in my obligations under the contract to my detriment. For this reason I believe the charges fall under the provisions set out in Section 5 of the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and as such are unlawful".

I understand the legal soundness of this argument is not yet decided on but I can't see any problems with telling the bank that's what I believe. I can always accept I was wrong at a later date if that's how it turns out right?

esmerellda

jlb1986 wrote: »

What grounds do you mean to negotiate on? I'm not in a position to start paying money to them as previously they've said they'll only accept something in the region of £30-40 a month. If it turns out we have no scope on reclaiming then obviously I'll have to pay the amount back but I'm not prepared to pay what I can't afford when there's still a chance of having the charges lifted.

Surely even if I shouldn't file a claim with the courts yet it wouldn't hurt to use Section 5, as my reasons for disputing the debt in my communication with the bank, prior to reaching the court stage. I imagine by the time several letters have gone back and forward we'll have an OFT announcement.

I was thinking about saying something like:

"I believe that, as these charges subsidise the cost of banking services provided to those in credit, this creates a significant in-balance in my obligations under the contract to my detriment. For this reason I believe the charges fall under the provisions set out in Section 5 of the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and as such are unlawful".

I understand the legal soundness of this argument is not yet decided on but I can't see any problems with telling the bank that's what I believe. I can always accept I was wrong at a later date if that's how it turns out right?

From what you have said it does sound as though you could be in hardship and you could use the guidance laid out in BCOBS and in the LENDING CODE to assist.

Ask the bank to put a hold on charges and interest on the account as you are in hardship, accept an offer of £1 - £10 a week whatever you can afford as an interim measure as although you dispute the amount, you do not wish to renege on your responsibilitys or avoid whatever may be legitimatly incurred debt, and ask for them to consider refunding the amount to clear the account or hold the debt as in dispute - you are aware that the OFT will be announcing whether they intend to continue in their investigation into charges and that you feel you should not be disadvantaged by the delay- you still feel the charges are unfair, and add in the sentence you have written (which is pretty good on section 5 actually).

Ie do it as a complaint about how the charges are affecting your circumstances etc combined with concerns over fairness and the OFT investigation rather than a legal threat of action.


Also with the offer , even if just £1, enclose the first payment, and continue making those payments to the acccount - there is much less chance of them actually going to court if you can show you are trying reasonably to fix things.

esmerellda

Also who are the DCA ? If they are an external company tell them the debt is in dispute with the bank and you will be dealing with the bank directly.

orc_2

Someone else may well have a different opininion to me, which is to be expected as everyone is trying to adapt to the post SC scenario and assess the best way forward, for all claimants.

I'm sorry, but I don't advocate any new legal jargon argument/ claim to a bank and particularly a court at present. The reasons are partly explained above, but additionally, so as not to jeopardise other claimants chances of success by setting a precedent. The exact legal arguments to be used are being developed. This is very early doors for this stage, I'm afraid.

What I suggested earlier was to write to your bank, detailing your financial circumstances and in effect appealing to them for assistance. Perhaps source a template to detail income and essential expenditure. Reference can also be made to the Banking Conduct Regime (which can be sourced on the Financial Services Agency website) which says that customers in financial difficulty should be handled sympathetically- note, hardship claims effectively ceased.

I am sorry, but personally, I won't give advice to structure a claim letter at present, as the arguments have to be agreed by all and this is being developed.

esmerellda

I think we have the same opinion on this orc, you write it more clearly.

jlb1986

Thanks esmerellda that's just the sort of advice I was looking for. I must admit I was rather pleased with my wording when I read that sentence back, I should have been a lawyer I think.

The DCA is a 3rd party and I see nothing on their paperwork that suggests they are a member of the Lloyds/Halifax group so I'll write them a letter saying the

I think what you advised is a good idea and will take the angle you suggested.

orc_2

esmerellda wrote: »

I think we have the same opinion on this orc, you write it more clearly.

We have which is good. Not sure re second part though ie my writing, I tend to think too fast.

We are all in this together and need to work together, dare I say it, for the greater good.

My post was being drafted while you were busy posting.

jlb Please follow Esmerellda's advice re:

"If they are an external company tell them the debt is in dispute with the bank and you will be dealing with the bank directly."

Best of luck to you.