Grade II Listed House

jangor_2

I am interested in purchasing a small two bedroom end terrace house but it has Grade II listed status. The property does need upgrading (including installing a kitchen) and I am now a little concerned about the implications of a Grade II house.

Advice much appreciated.

mystic_trev

Get a copy of the 'Listing' first to find out what's listed in the building. You might be OK for a lot of the Internals, but if you're not the whole process can be a pain in the @rse. Been there, done it, never again! Some people love having the planing officer loooking over their shoulder, watching there every move!

Ian_W

The implications are basically - cost and the need to get LA approval for any changes. For example if you needed to change the windows then often the LA would only approve a similar design in wood rather than UPVC.

English Heritage have a page HERE. I have never owned one, we nearly did but something else put us off but that one had been allowed to have a conservatory on the back on the grounds it was a temporary structure and couldn't be seen from the lane. Internally the rules seemed quite relaxed, it seemed the external features that could be viewed by passers-by were what mattered. But I guess it varies and depends on what features make it worthy of listing.

Doozergirl

Kitchens and bathrooms, redecoration aren't a problem, it's really what can be seen from the street and also any wall knocking or extensions that you plan to build. If your plan is to knock it around a lot without much concern for any of the original features then a listed building is not for you! We had one which we extended and I think the conservation officers were fair with us. We got away with plastic guttering as that was what was there already The window style had to be approved as did the colour of the mortar we were using for repointing and we had to replace the roof with the same tiles (no issue - had to find some reclaim but the originals were good). Inside it was really only the extension that needed approval although we did remove walls between the old shop and the house as keeping the old shop would have been silly - it was tiny and had been disused since the war! Nothing else was an issue really and we renovated the whole thing with new electrics, plumbing, a reskim on the plaster (might have been an issue if we'd hacked it back though), decorated.

I don't think it's that bad if you use common sense and are already prepared to be respectful to the house. It is expensive - the windows were a small fortune!

Entertainer

Had a few Grade 2 listed buildings and I wouldn't let it put you off buying. You have to apply for listed buildings consent in addition to a normal planning application. Essentially, existing features have to go back like for like in terms of their external appearance. This wouldn't stop you putting a new structure like a conservatory on there. Internally you can make alterations, I would think it highly unlikely that there are any specific internal features that are listed.

It does vary by local council, some will have conservation officers who are hands on and can be a real pain with their daft bureaucracy others wont be interested (I've seen wattle and daub walls ripped out and no ones been none the wiser.)

marcg

Architect comment:
Some of the comments above are a little untrue. A listed building is listed in its entirety - the grade is merely a guide to how valuable the authority considers the buidling. Typically grade II is of some interest, grade I is of interest and grade I* is of special interest. The listing will draw specific attention to certain features (which can be internal) but DOES NOT mean that only these features are protected. All of the property, including the garden, garden walls and outbuildings are protected.

Works without to consent to a listed building are a criminal offence (as in potential custodial sentence).

Also, buildings within a conservation area are subject to the same rules.

Practically, this means everything considered a significant work (as opposed to routine maintenance) requires listed building consent (application for which is free) in addition to any normal planning application that may be required. A grade II listed building is not particularly scary for getting consent but you are very much at the whim of the officer involved. If they decide you must use plaster and lathe or horsehair plastering instead of plasterboard then that is what you must do.

If it were me, I'd look at the house, decide what, if anything, I wanted to do to it and then call the council and ask the local conservation officer to meet me on-site to discuss. In all likelihood it will all be fine but might cost a bit more to do works.

leveller2911

I'm a Joiner and a fair amount of my work is to Listed Properties.There are cost impications with any building work with regards to VAT.

As an example if you were to make a new opening in a wall and fit a new window that is VAT free, however if you replace an existing rotten window that is classed as "Maintenance" and is subject to the standard rate of VAT(15%), if you replace an existing upvc window purely for astheics reasons that is VAT free.

Replace an existing staircase and its VAT payable, open up the ceiling and fit a new staircase its VAT free.. The rules are the wrong way round as they should be encouraging people to "Maintain" Listed Properties, but sadly they're not...........

Just remember 9 times out of 10 you need permission to change the colour of the front door, Listed Properties can be a "Money Pit"

Good luck ........

marcg

Don't be entirely scared off though. The listing implies it must be a very pretty house so there's something...

Also, a sensible conservation officer will want to see a listed building maintained in order to protect it for future generations. If this means allowing you to replace the guttering with upvc or not at all then they may well prefer to see you sort out the water damage issue rather than keep the rusting cast iron gutters. They are also likely to be far more accommodating of a homeowner rather than a commercial owner.

The key, as we have all said, is to talk to the conservation officer before you buy. Keep records of all that was said and agreed and then write back to the officer afterward, thanking him/her and confirming that which was agreed. Remember, if you didn't agree it then you don't have the right to do it, no matter how accommodating the officer seemed. Whilst the house is semi-derelict and deteriorating, you have a lot to bargain with. Once you have bought the house and are stuck with it, the conservation officer may push you to their view of the "right" way to conserve this piece of history.

Agree everything you want to do before you buy, confirm it in writing and you should be fine.

leveller2911

With regards to Conservation officers.In 23 yrs I have dealt with a fair few,some are excellant in the way they deal with listed properties and their owners.

However there are an equel number of ignorant Little Hitlers who want all the work done exactly how they want it done, irrespective of whether or not its Historically correct.Ive known them want Victorian mouldings on early Georgian houses

Some will allow Double glazing (as long as glazing bars are a tradtional thin section and mouldings) and draught excluders and other won't hear of it.Its purely down to personal views and that tbh is wrong.If a window,door can be made to look traditional but with modern thermal values then it should be allowed.

If you get an "open minded " conservation officer then your on to a good relationship ,if not it can be heart break .......(and an expensive one at that)

jangor_2

Thankyou for all the interesting replies. The house is in a village I love with an outlook overlooking the village green and the lovely church. I don't want to change too much but the property has been allowed to deteriorate and certain works would be essential to make it habitable. At this stage I am still a little uncertain whether to proceed. I will certainly take up the suggestion of contacting the Conservation Officer to discuss the works required before making a firm offer. All the responses have been very helpful.

Doozergirl

jangor wrote: »

Thankyou for all the interesting replies. The house is in a village I love with an outlook overlooking the village green and the lovely church. I don't want to change too much but the property has been allowed to deteriorate and certain works would be essential to make it habitable. At this stage I am still a little uncertain whether to proceed. I will certainly take up the suggestion of contacting the Conservation Officer to discuss the works required before making a firm offer. All the responses have been very helpful.

Owning a Listed building is probably the only way you will get to own a house overlooking the idyllic village green and the church. It sounds lovely - if that is what you want then it sounds like a listed building is one for you!

Mine was like that - on my wedding day, a beautiful cloudless day in May, my wedding dress had hung from the huge beam across the lounge, I walked the very small journey acround the green to the Norman church, cheered on by the locals at the village pub two doors away from home and we partied in a marquee we'd hired and put in the huge pub garden. It was beautiful and the reason why you'd live in a house like that in a place like that

(Ok, I admit I now live in a much bigger house that cost me a little bit less than that one - that's the toss up!)