Anyone used Rointe heaters?

CymruVilla

Many thanks to penrhyn, Owain Moneysaver & Richie-from-the-Boro ........

All your comments and advice were really appreciated and very informative

Having given what you said a lot of thought, I've decided a lot of things are going my way, and some stuff will be a 'wait and see approach'

My storage heaters and panel heaters are Creda and look pretty new. My loft is well insulated, in fact double insulated in parts, and the walls have cavity insulation in them. So all good there.

The property has suspended floors with a void underneath, it would be too much upheaval to get all the floorboards up and insulate that way, so as we're putting new carpeting throughout, I've done some research on insulating carpet underlay and some stuff is 3.13 tog which apparently is really good and can keep most heat in a room. The EPC on the property was an 'E' rating of 48 with a potential of a 'C' rating of 80, these figures it seems we're down to the fact of no floor insulation. Apparently it's 15% of heat that's lost through the floor, so it's not the greatest of concerns, so the correct underlay should help. The other reason for the bad rating was that there are 27 Halogen spotlights that were fitted by the last occupants, so they will be coming straight out and 5W LED's will be going in which should make a difference.

We also have the option of a wood burner which will help also.

The advise on using delay timers for washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher to be used overnight is also good and appreciated.

The only follow up advice I would appreciate please would be the point on the water tank. I'm going to replace the current tank for a bigger one, and will of course make sure it is fully insulated, my only concern is whether the tank will be able to retain the hot temperature of the water until early evening for a bath or whether it would be best to get a tank with a second immersion heater to top it up just in case ..... Any thoughts on that please?

Richie-from-the-Boro

The only follow up advice is whether the tank will be able to retain the hot temperature of the water until early evening for a bath

Your existing cylinder should already be [E7] PartL spec, due to the higher than normal storage temperatures the capability of the insulation to preserve the temperature of the water the type of insulation has a very very low standing heat-loss [one kW per day (kWh/24h) on a 125 litre cylinder] permissible thermal transfer rate from the 60mm of insulating foam, modern ones have the additional benefit of recessed immersions and thermostats to reduce even further energy wastage. All dual PartL cylinders have a top up facility [see below] and is usually operated by a standard 60 minute top-up water controller such as the Horstmann unit also shown below.





The top element [top-up-day rate] will give a couple of big sinks of hot water when used, the bottom element [E7-night rate] will give a full bath and a couple of sinks of hot water. Heat loss is not linear to the volume of water, the bigger the mass the slower the loss rate, eg [figured below are 'ish' but about right] :

1 kW per day (kWh/24h) on a 125 litre cylinder
1.5 kW per day (kWh/24h) on a 250 litre cylinder
2 kW per day (kWh/24h) on a 300 litre cylinder

Cardew

It is also pertinent to point out that the 'heat loss' of 1kWh to 2kWh in 24 hours is measured by a British Standard(BS) with the water at a constant 65C temperature. In practice with water drawn off, and tank not at 65C, the losses will normally well below that BS figure.


Also pertinent is that the heat isn't actually 'lost' as it warms the fabric of the house - which is why many HW tanks are in an airing cupboard.

nico98_2

Just going through the thread and found it very useful. We have Duo Heaters which i find not great at keeping the room warm. Have the 500 and 300 in a 25sqm living room . Also have 2 epx panel heaters in the bedrooms and they are shocking bad. Bought a fan heater to heat the bedroom for the winter. The apartment is 3rd floor and only 6 years old. I am now in the process of taking out the NSH and replacing them with on demand electric heating system. I believe it will be better for us as we are only here 2 days a week and the rest of the time we are in work. Not going for rointe but wondering what makes would give best value for money. Have to be electronically timed.

Richie-from-the-Boro

If you decide to go radiated panel heater ............................. room heating.

Assuming you are well insulated with an EPC of 'B' or at the very least 'C' always install enough plus!. For example if it takes an hour for a 2kW radient panel to bring your living area room from cold to 22 °C in the winter you would benefit from 2 x 1.5kW [3kW not 2kW total] placed 'in~line~of~sight' of yourself an partner, otherwise by time you have spent £x and begin to feel comfortable you will be going to bed and wasting the £x cost you have just paid. If I had to use panel heaters I'd want double the calculated kW needed with a good [+/- 0.1ºC] electronic thermostat to improve regulation avoid temperature drift and a good quality timer. That way I get the temperature needed much faster .. .. and importantly the radiated comfort needed by time I've had a shower and made my beans on toast. Radiant is better than convected and choosing one that minimises heat loss [rear insulated] to the wall always helps. At the end of the day everything in the room, curtains, furniture and even yourself eventually becomes a radiator.

Which one is cost & aesthetics based, if it [they are] has (1) sufficient kW and has an (2) electronic thermostat to +/- 0.3ºC a minimum of (3) 24 hour and preferably a 7 day digital timer with frost protection and in wet areas is IPX4 you will be well served. Additionally extras that can be has are [expensive] PIR Occupancy Detector Control, off panel thermostats and on panel rear insulation.

nico98_2

Thanks for the advice Richie. I have one quote from a guy supplying Lucht LHZ. He is saying 2.4kw heater for main living room which is 25sqm and 1.2kw for 12sqm bedrooms. They look pretty good from the brochure and you take there claims of energy consumption with a pinch of salt. I have done the calculations that they run non stop without cutting out while i am at home and they work out about the same as the Duoheat to run. The quote is £1200 for complete job.

Richie-from-the-Boro

What can I say, they, just like ~ all ~ German heaters are Up to 60% more ECONOMICAL than standard heaters, as for fitting they come with a 13amp fused plug & 3 meters of cable, so no different to a kettle. They are Euro 365 & Euro 310 retail including fitting & VAT in Germany. Sorry [this is MSE] if its not the response you hoped for nico98, If you like them at the price buy them and enjoy.

1 Euro equals 0.81 British Pound Sterling, I note that a similar spec x 2 EPX1500's for your living area giving 3kW total would be £120.25 each + VAT @ £48.00 so £288.00 plus a couple of holes drilled in the wall a saving of £500 once you paid a tradesman £200 an hour to install them. The remote thermostats for the model you mention must be ordered separately, and are an extra cost for the stat and the fitting, but at least they are panel and not convector type units.

The DUO-500 decants 18.2kWh of pre-existing cheap-price stored heat energy and has an instant any time 13a radiant boost element of core-price 0.54kW
The DUO-300 decants 9.1kWh of pre-existing cheap-price stored heat energy and has an instant any time 13a radiant boost element of core-price 0.38kW

In my view the DUO-500 as I've often said in these groups has a slightly undersized storage capacity for just those few weeks per very cold winter and would be best supplemented at design stage with an extra 7 to 9 or so kWh of cheap-price stored heat, this would bring to total capacity of both to the normal 16 bricker's 23.5kWh ability to deal with a 25sqm to 28sqm living area without having to resort to any kind of expensive core-price instant any time 13a radiant boost . Its difficult, other than being permanently left on 24/7, to see how the Lucht 2.4kw can cope if the the DUO-500 plus its radiant 0.54kW boost could not. If you like them at the price buy them and enjoy.





Conduction is irrelevant, you would need to sit on your Morphy Richards iron to get warm. Infra-red panel heating is disregarded as its only really effective in a domestic dwelling if the heaters are on the ceiling in direct line with a human. Panel is essentially non-convective and convected is essentially non-radiated.

At its simplest convection warms the ceiling



And radiated warms an object, radiated transfers heat to that settee person / object in a straight line.

nico98_2

I am not buying them. They are just a quote i got in. For the EPX heaters you are on about. I have 2 of them in the bedrooms and they are awful. At full power very little heat comes out of them and they cannot heat the bedrooms. So i am not interested in anything from dimplex.

Richie-from-the-Boro

nico98 wrote: »

I am not buying them. They are just a quote i got in. For the EPX heaters you are on about. I have 2 of them in the bedrooms and they are awful. At full power very little heat comes out of them and they cannot heat the bedrooms. So i am not interested in anything from dimplex.

I have given input costs and output heat figures of you old and proposed new Lucht heaters. I'm brand agnostic - couldn't care less if its Dimplex, Amazon or Aldi. Frankly there are hundreds of 3kW panel heaters on Amazon for £80 that will do three times the heat output heat for 20% of the cost of the Lucht.

My point which you seem to be missing was that its difficult to see how, given your lifestyle and insulation in your 6 year old flat, the Lucht 2.4kw can cope if the the previous DUO-500 plus its radiant 0.54kW boost could not, the Lucht would need to be left on 24/7.

If you have tiny 0.5kW PX500 's in the bedroom, I'm not surprised they feel underpowered for the room size, they have 1/2 the power of your grandads old one bar fire. The point I'm making is the apartment was under heated in the first place. Add to that user error which is common to night store users and its a recipe for cold and disappointment.

If you like the price and product of Lucht, buy them and enjoy.

nico98_2

Lucht is just a quote i got. Not going to buy them as i feel there is better value to be got. The EPX in the bedrooms are 1.2kw and at full power the heat coming out of them is very poor. I have had dimplex storage heaters and dimplex panel heaters in previous apartment and they worked very well. But the ones in this apartment are very poor. This apartment energy rating is better also.