Why do we hate Unions? Look at BA...

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

And I don't want to say this because it sounds ignorant... but... £35k to give out sandwiches and point at some exits?! I'd keep my trap shut, get on with it and hope no one noticed my payslip.

Erm, theres a bit more to it than that. One of the family is a hostess.

Passengers, are of course, the experts.

Cleaver

boomerangs wrote: »

You've changed your tune cleaver. Only the other day you were defending useless tube drivers who do even less the BA cabin staff and get paid alot more.

I wasn't 'defending' anyone as I recall, but on this point I think tube drivers have a lot more responsibilities and require a lot more skill and experience than cabin crew.

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Erm, theres a bit more to it than that. One of the family is a hostess.

I'm sure that's true. Dealing with difficult people, understanding health and safety and very demanding physically. I imagine that it's also a very difficult job to do if you have a family.

However, £35k to do this on lang haul flights seems a pretty decent wage for the role in the current climate do you not think?

Edit: From the BA Website:

It's certainly not for anyone who craves routine. A key element of our Cabin Crew strategy is that crew are expected to be totally flexible as to where they are based and which routes they fly. It can be difficult to plan ahead, and you'll find yourself working with a different team almost every time you report for duty.The day begins with the crew briefing, where the team meet up, often for the first time, and the Cabin Services Director (CSD) goes over the flight. Crew are assigned to cabins, and any modifications to the aircraft or schedule are discussed before everyone boards the bus to take them to the aircraft.
From then on it's non-stop action. Going over safety procedures, checking equipment in the cabin, making sure there are enough meals on board the list goes on. By now the passengers are beginning to board. On a short flight there are a huge number of tasks that have to be completed within tight timescales, from safety demonstrations to meals and duty free. On longer sectors other challenges, like restless children or jetlag, will test your ability to handle the pressure.

• To be aged between 18 and 62 at the time of application
• To be a minimum of 5ft 2in and a maximum height of 6ft 1in in height, with weight in proportion, such that the ability to perform all job functions is not hindered. In addition to this candidates must have a vertical functional reach of at least 6' 7". **
• To be physically fit
• GCSE or equivalent in English and Maths
• The right to live and work within the EU
• Previous customer service experience
• A valid E.U. passport allowing unrestricted worldwide travel
• To live within 45 minutes of the airport at which you are based (usually Heathrow or Gatwick).
• Are prepared to conform to all British Airways Uniform Standards, and have no normally visible tattoos or body piercings.

So the description on the website says that it involves saftey demos, giving out and checking meals and dealing with tired children. You need 2 GCSEs, some customer services experience, be a certain age and not have bits of metal in your body. There's not many jobs with such low requirements that pay £35k as a typical wage.

Having said this, good luck to 'em. I just wouldn't be striking if I were them. In my organisation you'd need a degree, probably a masters, significant managerial and budget experience, a project management qualification and experience of dealing with suppliers and customers to earn £35k.

nearlynew

Cleaver wrote: »

...............
Supporting people's right to strike in general and supporting this particular strike are two completely different issues. You understand that, right?

No I don't actually.

What is the difference?

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

I'm sure that's true. Dealing with difficult people, understanding health and safety and very demanding physically. I imagine that it's also a very difficult job to do if you have a family.

However, £35k to do this on lang haul flights seems a pretty decent wage for the role in the current climate do you not think?

I've already said that some people don't know when they have it good.

I just took issue with your trolley dolly approach and looking down the snout at them.

In any other career...
- Being responsible for the health and safety of 100's of people
- Being the person responsible for saving lives
- Filling in flight reports, customs forms, health reports
- Not being able to get home on your day off
- Spending the majority of holidays on your own in a foreign country unable to be with family
- Sometimes extreme hours
....would have you on a hell of a lot more than 35k.

Sure, it sounds nice, you get to spend your day off in South Africa. But you can't exactly catch up with the housework, take the kids to the park etc, before going back to work after having had your "day off" in limbo in another country.

I think the wage BA are paying is very good for the average wage for that job.

I just took issue with your "handing out a sandwich" comment.

Cleaver

nearlynew wrote: »

No I don't actually.

What is the difference?

Supporting someone's right to strike, for most people, would be a generally understanding that as a last resort and under due circumastance everyone has a right to strike. Most people would then go on to say that striking under any circumstance just because you have the right doesn't make it reasonable.

So it's possible to fully support someone's right to strike and then not support them striking on a certain issue.

DirtPoorGuy

For anyone who grudges Unions I am sure you are probably reaping the benefits of their hard work.

Maybe a little reminder for us all is this video on YouTube, it is Australian but is just as valid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=184NTV2CE_c

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I've already said that some people don't know when they have it good.

I just took issue with your trolley dolly approach and looking down the snout at them.

Fair point, it was a bit harsh. I have to be honest and say that if you'd asked me this morning what cabin crew earned I would have guessed at about £17 for short haul basic, maybe £27k for long haul and possibly up to £35k for supervisors. To find it's £26k, £35k and up to £56k was quite shocking.

They have my respect for doing a difficult job, as everyone does. But their pay seems pretty good to me.

Mr.Brown_4

Cleaver wrote: »

So it's possible to fully support someone's right to strike and then not support them striking on a certain issue.

That is a bit like Life of Brian and supporting the right to bear babies, even though he couldn't have babies. Or maybe having cake and not eating it.

If only these people would strike only when we sympathise with them, and certainly not when we might need to use an airline. I am being gently sarcastic to make a point which I am not sure I agree with.

Hey ho... it passes the time.

Love to all.

nearlynew

Cleaver wrote: »

Supporting someone's right to strike, for most people, would be a generally understanding that as a last resort and under due circumastance everyone has a right to strike. Most people would then go on to say that striking under any circumstance just because you have the right doesn't make it reasonable.

So it's possible to fully support someone's right to strike and then not support them striking on a certain issue.

But what you or I think of the issue is immaterial.

It is for the workers to decide on what issues they are prepared to strike.