Are all low paid jobs like this??

bendix

ceridwen wrote: »

,,,and one thing that the "have a go" merchants need to remember is that some of what OP is complaining about re his job is nothing whatsoever to do with him personally, ie:

- no pension
- no annual payrise
- minimum amount of holiday the law allows
- overtime at statutory rate

All those factors are wrong - no matter which employer does them and there would appear to be many employers like it. Having such working conditions is no reflection whatsoever on those poor employees who have to put up with those conditions. Its not that easy to find another job when there are many other employers that bad - its not like its just one isolated bad employer and all others available are decent ones. Theres a lot of the barstewards around.

Would you like to explain why all these factors are 'wrong'. What laws are being broken by not giving someone an annual payrise as if it is a godgiven right? What is wrong with given the statutory allowance of holidays?

The last time I checked, there were no laws tieing people to an employer. It is, I believe, easy to quit and take your labour elsewhere.

If people are in lowpaid and poor (but legal) condition employment there is noone to blame but themselves.

olly300

ceridwen wrote: »

,,,and one thing that the "have a go" merchants need to remember is that some of what OP is complaining about re his job is nothing whatsoever to do with him personally, ie:

- no pension
- no annual payrise
- minimum amount of holiday the law allows
- overtime at statutory rate

All those factors are wrong - no matter which employer does them and there would appear to be many employers like it. Having such working conditions is no reflection whatsoever on those poor employees who have to put up with those conditions. Its not that easy to find another job when there are many other employers that bad - its not like its just one isolated bad employer and all others available are decent ones. Theres a lot of the barstewards around.

The reason why people are having a go at the OP is that he has a history of starting threads like this.

He has also been given lots of advice by some posters, who bowed out of this thread earlier, on improving his skills and qualifications to get another better paying job or starting his own business.

In addition like mentioned it's not illegal for an employer to pay people like this in the UK.

Not every employer rakes it in. There are people out there who own their own businesses and look wealthy but are actually mortgaged to the hilt and can lose their business, home and cars at anytime their loans are called in. I've met and know people and their children who this has happened to.

In short if you dislike your job or you think your employer is not paying you what you are worth then you need to do something about it. Coming on here to complain to people isn't going to get you anywhere.

Insomniac666

Haven't employers with a workforce higher then xx (I can't remember but it's a low number) have to offer some sort of Pension? stakeholder or other?

olly300

Insomniac666 wrote: »

Haven't employers with a workforce higher then xx (I can't remember but it's a low number) have to offer some sort of Pension? stakeholder or other?

They do but the employer doesn't have to pay in to it.

Also pensions advisers and the pension industry, don't like revealing that it's not worth poorly paid people having a pension as this means they lose out on means tested benefits. Unfortunately they refuse to say at what income point it's not worth saving for a pension.

Insomniac666

Doesn't it depend whether the scheme they're in too contracted-Out or not.

Though you will get certain amount of relief - tax and NI....

sorry a bit off topic.

donnajunkie

liney wrote: »

That will be why i said "Unskilled manual work", not Semi-skilled or Skilled.

I'd be interested to know what level of carpentry we are talking about here anyway. Skilled, trained carpenters earn good money. People who do manufacturing work that happens to be with wood are not automatically Carpenters/Joiners.

ok sorry. your post did give the impression that you thought all manufacturing/shop floor work was unskilled.

bundly

olly "Why do you feel bitter?"

Because not giving employees even a rise in line with inflation is tantamount to them taking a yearly pay cut.

My friend is very valuable to the business, it is for example HIS customer service skills that contribute a helluva lot to customer satisfaction, return visits, and the incoming profits.

olly: " If your friend was a better job/standard of living he should ask for a pay rise and if he doesn't get it then he should either: 1. take the risk and start up his own business OR 2. get a better paying job"

My friend is a meek, sweet type of person, not aggressive, pushy or even assertive; and his boss is exploiting his reticnet nature by not giving him even a rise in line with inflation. Yet every year he invites all his employees to a barbecue at his house, where his high standard of living is flaunted at those who helped to give it to him! My friend's "underlings" are on the National Minimum Wage, BTW.

As my friend has been kept on such tight wages for 10 years he only just manages to maintain himself and so has no capital with which to start his own business. Jobs in his particular line of work (I hesitate to say what it is because of breaking his anonymity) are quite rare (ten years ago he had to move 150 miles to get a position in the job that he trained for) and now he has close family ties in the town he works in, he is no longer free to move great distances to get another job. I think the boss knows all this and exploits it. In his contract he is not allowed to leave and work for a rival firm or start up his own business within a radius of about 100 miles.

Olly: "There is no point being loyal to a company unless it's your own."

On this point, I agree with you 100%

bundly

patman99 wrote: »

I have since come to realise that the way to promotion is through doing sod-all, having loads of time-off sick & getting at least 2 verbal & 1 written warning. This is garantteed to get you promoted.

I have seen this happen with my own eyes. I was stunned when a heavy-drinking co-worker who not once not twice but three times failed to show up for work (without even phoning in sick!) because he was drunk from the night before got promoted to a supervisory post.

I used to think that when people said, it's not what you know it's who you know, they were just bitter because they failed to get promotion, but this is not true, or not always true. If you are a "mate" of the people on a promotion panel, you will get the job. End of!

I myself was refused promotion for twenty long years because of my involvement with the trades union movement. I even ended up training newbies who were then promoted above my head; they were, of course, free of the taint of ever having been a union shop steward.

bundly

donnajunkie wrote: »

perhaps they find it scary. you can get in a rut very easily. you could be worried that going somewhere else could be just as bad or worse. it could be a case of their not being many jobs in their area. it is more likely to be a lack of confidence than anything else. we certainly cant assume something like incompetetence or laziness. we can suspect that as a possiblity but i think it is unnecessary and unkind to start saying such things about someone in a forum. it does not help anyone by doing so.

I agree 100%

olly300

bundly wrote: »

olly "Why do you feel bitter?"

Because not giving employees even a rise in line with inflation is tantamount to them taking a yearly pay cut.

My friend is very valuable to the business, it is for example HIS customer service skills that contribute a helluva lot to customer satisfaction, return visits, and the incoming profits.

olly: " If your friend was a better job/standard of living he should ask for a pay rise and if he doesn't get it then he should either: 1. take the risk and start up his own business OR 2. get a better paying job"

My friend is a meek, sweet type of person, not aggressive, pushy or even assertive; and his boss is exploiting his reticnet nature by not giving him even a rise in line with inflation. Yet every year he invites all his employees to a barbecue at his house, where his high standard of living is flaunted at those who helped to give it to him! My friend's "underlings" are on the National Minimum Wage, BTW.

As my friend has been kept on such tight wages for 10 years he only just manages to maintain himself and so has no capital with which to start his own business. Jobs in his particular line of work (I hesitate to say what it is because of breaking his anonymity) are quite rare (ten years ago he had to move 150 miles to get a position in the job that he trained for) and now he has close family ties in the town he works in, he is no longer free to move great distances to get another job. I think the boss knows all this and exploits it. In his contract he is not allowed to leave and work for a rival firm or start up his own business within a radius of about 100 miles.

Olly: "There is no point being loyal to a company unless it's your own."

On this point, I agree with you 100%

Unfortunately bundly your friend has got to realise himself that he is being exploited and has to move on. No one can do it for him and you don't get anything from feeling bitter.

No amount of talking to a friend of mine by his wife, myself and others would get him to move. Only when he stood up to his employer who then forced him out of his job a few months later, did he move on to better things. The job he eventually got was a sideways move into a different area but with better pay and less hours.