Police Stops - Festive Drink Drive Campaign

Flearoy

Hi

Such a checkpoint was set up near my home (Macclesfield) a few Xmas's ago. I got pulled over late one night because I'd left my foglights on and it was no longer foggy. I'd been over the moors where it was foggy and forgot to switch them off. It's an offence, the officer informed me. I was then breathalysed, and was of course a fat zero on the meter (too paranoid and too worried about killing someone to even contemplate drinking then driving), and sent on my way. So from my limited experience, the police can stop you for any minor motoring transgression, or suspicion thereof, and investigate, followed up by a breathalyser test. Absolutely fine by me. Let's just say that not everyone stopped that night did so well on the breath test!

derrick

Flearoy wrote: »

Hi

Such a checkpoint was set up near my home (Macclesfield) a few Xmas's ago. I got pulled over late one night because I'd left my foglights on and it was no longer foggy. I'd been over the moors where it was foggy and forgot to switch them off. It's an offence, the officer informed me. I was then breathalysed, and was of course a fat zero on the meter (too paranoid and too worried about killing someone to even contemplate drinking then driving), and sent on my way. So from my limited experience, the police can stop you for any minor motoring transgression, or suspicion thereof, and investigate, followed up by a breathalyser test. Absolutely fine by me. Let's just say that not everyone stopped that night did so well on the breath test!

Yes, but you were stopped for a traffic offence, then breathalysed, a perfectly legal requirement, but when they pull you over when no offence or suspicion and just ask you to blow into the meter, then that is unlawful.

sebdangerfield

The point still is, how do you know they had no reason to suspect drink driving?

They can stop anyone, for any reason. They can develop a suspicion of drink driving from anything from the manner of driving to the way you eyes are. It's all been through court before and will continue to be deamed legal. As a defence solicitor don't you think my collegues and I would be using the legality of breath tests to our advantage? If they were unlawful they'd be thrown out of court every Christmas and summer drink drive campain! They're perfectly legal. I suggest getting some basic legal training before complaining about legal topics you admit you're not trained in and know little about!

derrick

sebdangerfield wrote: »

The point still is, how do you know they had no reason to suspect drink driving?

!

It wasn't just him, they cordoned off a lane for about 2 hours, pulling in 6-8 motorists at a time, were they all "suspect drink driving? "

They were stopping these vehicles for random BTs !

Like I said above in post #86; -
"Think about it a random stop would/should be just that and you should then expect to be questioned on the vehicle,driver and any passengers, not just "have you been drinking,blow into this", by doing only that"at random" they are conducting random BTs under the guise of a random stop without the usual questions re a random stop, therefore in my BIL case an unlawful random BT"


I am not a trained electrician, but I can wire a plug. You don't need to be trained to know some basics, I know it is illegal to go through a red traffic light, I don't need legal training for that!

sebdangerfield

It wasn't just him, they cordoned off a lane for about 2 hours, pulling in 6-8 motorists at a time, were they all "suspect drink driving? "

If every one was breath tested then yes. The Police can stop you if they want. Be it to look at your driving docs, examine the vehicle if the officer is pg9 trained or even to ask about an offence or for a witness trawl. Thats the law.

They were stopping these vehicles for random BTs !

No, they were randomly stopping vehicles. They then breath tested the ones they had the power for. Nothing you've written shows anything to the contrary (thats why your letters to the Chief Constable and Home office were fruitless) and ridiculous). Did you stop and watch every single vehicle during the operation? Are you sure that everyone was breath tested during the operation?

I am not a trained electrician, but I can wire a plug. You don't need to be trained to know some basics, I know it is illegal to go through a red traffic light, I don't need legal training for that!

I also have a physics degree but the last nuclear reactor I knocked up didn't do so well. Leave some things to the experts.

Although you know it's unlawful to go through a red traffic light I doubt you know the intricacies of why. I know you're aware that drink driving is illegal but your knowledge of the law surrounding why is poor at best but you continue to state something that just isn't the case. I have other collegues who also specialise in traffic law who would jump at any chance to prove the unlawful use of powers but it simply isn't unlawful to be stopped by the Police.

What you complain about are random stops by the Police, not the random breath testing. The breath tests are wholly targeted, the stops are random.

I genuinely suggest you write to someone who can do something about your predicament. Writing directly to the chief constable and home office about something you simply cannot prove is futile and silly. If you disagree with the practice the Police use why not write to the IPCC. They can do something about it. What the Police are doing is not unlawful, you can't change that. The way they use the powers can be changed anf they are the only people who can do it. The chief con and home office would just put it with the other loony letters they receive.

Trust me, if the pratice were illegal my collegues and I would have jumped on it long, long ago. Like you say;

You don't need to be trained to know some basics,

but when your basics are wrong, it might be worth getting trained. I'd also check those plugs too.

derrick

Not all,(indeed probably most posts), comments on this forum have the "training" behind them, they are usually personal opinions, personal experiences, suggestions etc, but that dos not mean they should be belittled.

They where stopping for random BTs, my BIL had not consumed ANY alcohol for 5 days, so could not have any indication of DD, (also before you start he does not do drugs).

The person I spoke to on the phone at the police station the day after this happened admitted they here stopping these drivers and requesting a breath test, if this does not constitute a random BT in your world, then you must live in a difference one to others.

"The Police can stop you if they want. Be it to look at your driving docs, examine the vehicle if the officer is pg9 trained or even to ask about an offence or for a witness trawl. Thats the law."

I agree the police can do random stops for no reason, but when that reason is under the guise of random BTs then it becomes unlawful,
Like I said in post #86 (which you choose to ignore); -
"Think about it a random stop would/should be just that and you should then expect to be questioned on the vehicle,driver and any passengers, not just "have you been drinking,blow into this", by doing only that"at random" they are conducting random BTs under the guise of a random stop without the usual questions re a random stop, therefore in my BIL case an unlawful random BT".

As no such questions were asked of a totally sober driver, then the conclusion can only be random BTs!

The original OP was,"So how can such "random" tests be justified?!?"

Answer is they can't as they are unlawful!


"Nothing you've written shows anything to the contrary "

Everything I have written is to the contrary re random BTs, they are unlawful!


"Although you know it's unlawful to go through a red traffic light I doubt you know the intricacies of why."

Why would any motorist need to "know the intricacies of why."?

They know it is illegal and that is enough, just like they know random BTs are illegal!


"Trust me," I don't think so!

Bottom line and last word on the subject; -

Random stops are legal.
Random BTs are illegal.
Random BTs under the guise of random stops,(i.e. when no questions are asked of the driver except, "have you been drinking" then whatever the answer, "blow into this, if you don't you will be arrested for refusal"), are illegal!


The police flout the law daily, but are not accountable,(IPCC? a joke).

"but when your basics are wrong, it might be worth getting trained. I'd also check those plugs too."

You really are a piece of work, anyone disagrees and you have to start with insults, get over yourself!

sebdangerfield

I've said it over and over again..... Id doesn't matter that you brother in law hadn't had a drink for five days or that he didn't smell of drink. The way he drove and the way he looked are ample to prove suspicion. One case I recall was I guy who's barrister claimed his client had been unlawfully breathilyzed at the time (even though he blew 107!!) as the officer quite happily admitted he couldn't smell intoxicating liquor (they don't write alcohol as it in itself has no smell) on the def's breath. The def had been drinking vodka which I'm told doesn't smell as strongly as other spirits. It was obviously deemed a lawfull request and the guy convicted.

Training obviously comes into it, your discussing the intricacies of law with a lawyer and yet you don't fully understand what you're talking about.

Kilty_2

Having driven to work at 5am on Saturday and Sunday for the past few weeks I'm disappointed to not have been stopped and "illegally" breathalysed, tbh.

Not even seen any police on the roads :-\

pompeyrich

Kilty wrote: »

Having driven to work at 5am on Saturday and Sunday for the past few weeks I'm disappointed to not have been stopped and "illegally" breathalysed, tbh.

Not even seen any police on the roads :-\

Don't venture down this neck of the woods then, They were stopping everyone last Friday at one location, cars, vans, taxis the lot. Also now going for the "Morning after drivers" LINK

Kilty_2

Yeah they're normally out in force around here too, maybe just not on the roads I take to work