Is it my imagination, or have MSE users changed?

Geeves1980

Taking responsibility for your own actions when something goes wrong, feels awful and take a long time to fade (not helped by being repeatedly bought up by others again and again).

It's much easier to blame others, look for ways to prove to others that someone or something else caused the real problem and ease the feelings of embarassment, guilt etc. It's getting easier to do this and the possible reward of a nice compensation cheque is even more an incentive to prove that it wasn't you being daft, ignorant, naive or lazy.

People make bad choices (either poorly informed/thought through or reckless, risky decisions) and get hurt, physically or financially. They shouldn't have to eternally suffer, but at least acknowledge and take responsibility for the part they played.

ALIBOBSY

Hmmmm whilst I agree society has become less resposible and I am the first to moan about the "nanny state"-thanks for all that "nu labor". I do think alot of those on debt free boards etc have realised their errors. Some spent on cards and ran up debt because of "keeping up with the jones's" or the " I want it now mentality definately. But many simple used cards to cover bills and the debt slowly crept up. kind of like eating 100 extra calories a day and turning around 3 years later to find you are 3 or 4 stone heavier. It creeps up and is not about wide screen tellies holidays etc. IN fact we have had more holidays since clearly most of our debt than we did when using/servicing it.
And there are many who had unexpected events that plunged them into problems.

However the banks and the politicians were right there every step of the way pushing more and more debt onto people. It was too easily available and there was too much of it. So I would say both sides bear some of the responsibility.
Clearing the overdraft was the best thing we ever did and I NEVER want one again. Living in the black is such a relief, and if nothing else I hope the recession teaches this to many. Including those who end up bankcrupt.

Despite the banks scaremongering the fact is those who have been "money savvy" have NOT paid for the "!!!!less" (others words not mine). In fact the oposite is true those paying higher interest and charges have paid more (a great deal more) and this bank "profit" enabled them to give free banking/low rates etc etc to the others.

Also heres another one to ponder. Say someone takes out a credit card so its revolving credit. They get into trouble say 10 years later. In the meantime they have paid at least the minimum each month (most of which is interest) and at the point they have trouble have actually repaid the original "capital" many , many, times over. They have been a great source of income for the banks for all that period. Even if they then use the unenforcability rules to get the debt suspended (it does not get wiped just cannot be enforced in court-unless they proceed with court action which they probably can't afford anyway).
Their credit rating is screwed for at least 6 years, the bank sell the debt on (and write it off against tax-so no loss to them), so they are hassled and lied to by debt collectors over and over.

So explain how this 1) is ripping off the bank or 2) is them getting off scot free.

Like many things in life debt is not black and white. But I agree the main thrust of this site should be and is about moneysaving and budgeting-thats why I love old style best of all.

ali x


BTW I believe we should all be able to discuss these matters and be able to have different opinions. Trouble is it always seems to be a slanging match (I would say BOTH sides are just as bad at this).

The_White_Horse

pippitypip wrote: »

Whilst I do agree with some of your points, you're being a bit too generic.

In case you don't know - the DFW board is mostly about people at their wits' end in debt (whatever the reason) - we don't judge and there are fab posters there to help people put budgets together (statement of affairs) where to cut down and advice on charities (Payplan, CCCS) that help with debt management plans - i.e. ALL about paying back what you owe whilst empowering some very scared people who are being bullied by debt collectors. It's not always about clawing things back but sometimes about getting help when you're scared and knowing your rights in difficult situations. as well as helping some people to face up to their responsibilites no matter how scary it may seem.

I find that board and many posters all across MSE unbelievably generous with their time and advice - this site generally is pretty inspirational imho so I have to disagree with the tone of the thread but it's just my opinion.

pippitypip

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movilogo

After discovering there are so many rich members here [ie earing over £100k/yr] the psychology of majority of members are bound to change

ALIBOBSY

Just as aside wanted to say I am ashamed I got into debt and am sure many others are (although some don't seem to care) and never want to go there again. I am reticent to ever have a credit card again and NEVER want an overdraft.
Many many of those on the debt boards and old style feel the same and want to get back to the old ways of make do and mend, cook from scratch, only buy something where you really need it and can afford it etc etc.

The tone of the greenfingered boards and OS are so different from those "over here" so if the OP wants to gladen his heart pop over to those-come and find the best mince pie recipe EVER.

ali x

The_White_Horse

i was in debt, i wasn't ashamed. i purposely got into debt to buy stuff I wanted but couldn't afford - a car being the most expensive item. however, i paid it all off.

AND i took precautions in case I ever got ill, lost my job or died.

no problems.

longtimelurker_2

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

Just as aside wanted to say I am ashamed I got into debt and am sure many others are (although some don't seem to care) and never want to go there again. I am reticent to ever have a credit card again and NEVER want an overdraft.
Many many of those on the debt boards and old style feel the same and want to get back to the old ways of make do and mend, cook from scratch, only buy something where you really need it and can afford it etc etc.

The tone of the greenfingered boards and OS are so different from those "over here" so if the OP wants to gladen his heart pop over to those-come and find the best mince pie recipe EVER.

ali x

Many people - especially of my age - are doing just that, with no debt other than student loan, and are still priced out of the housing market.

fabforty

lemonjelly wrote: »

The thread title should be amended to show that society, not just mse has changed.

People bang on nowadays about their rights, what they are entitled to etc etc. Forgetting that with rights comes responsibility. Unfortunatly, that last bit is forgotten. No-one appears willing to take responsibility, for anything.

I agree, society has changed. But I think OP is right, in that once upon a time MSE was almost a haven against that kind of blame mentality. But posts like the ones that s/he describes do seem to be popping up more frequently.

sulkisu

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Welcome to the board.

Whilst your comments are true. Amongst the whinging and gnashing of teeth there are many genuine posters in the forums who are seeking help and advice. Providing opinion is offered in a polite reasoned way whether someone wishes to go away and reflect on same is a matter for them.

I always believe that to be fraudelent, deceitful etc in relation to a legal/financial matter could come back at any time to haunt you at any time in the future. Some suggestions are so nieve as to be unbelievable. As if it hasn't been tried in the past and yes, there is a penalty system if you are detected.

Maybe from the financial mess we are in, the next generation, will be different. More conservative (small c) attitudes and expectations to finance.

Banks aren't faultless. Though now they are returning to more traditional values of lending. Consumers are complaining. As if they have an automatic right to borrow money. Without any thought as to whose money they are actually borrowing.

I couldn't agree more, and I am not suggesting that all MSE users (or even most of them) fall into this category. Far from it, the vast majority seem to be genuine - have made misakes and recognise this and are taking responsibility for them. And the banks are definitely not blameless. I have just noticed that the number of posters who seemingly refuse to accept responsibility for their problems, appears to be on the increase. If you are a stranger, accessing the site for the first time - reading some of the posts that I described, you would be forgiven for thinking that this is what MSE is all about. The positive aspects of the site could easily be lost.

pippitypip_2

The_White_Horse wrote: »

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however my point probably wasn't clear - I'm just trying to say it's not ALL negative here on MSE. And in advising someone to take responsibility to pay back their debts and the best ways to do that, you don't HAVE to judge them as well.

My hope is that maybe the credit crunch and the huge rise in people with debt issues is that more and more people turn to more traditional life, budgeting, only spending what you have, being more responsible etc and MSE can only be good for helping spread that aim.

You'll always get people pushing the boundaries and trying to get around the rules but generally speaking I don't think we're all a bad bunch.

pippitypip