John Lennon On the Myth of Over-population

dixie_dean_2

Just to move the bickering on, my belief in climate change means I try not to waste things and I take fairly basic measures that usually save me money and have no negative impact on my life, for example having an insulated house, flying less, not wasting energy or water. What about this do any deniers think is wrong?

Cardew

dixie_dean wrote: »

Just to move the bickering on, my belief in climate change means I try not to waste things and I take fairly basic measures that usually save me money and have no negative impact on my life, for example having an insulated house, flying less, not wasting energy or water. What about this do any deniers think is wrong?

Surely nobody on either side of the debate would disagree with conserving energy; why just ask the Deniers?

The Nobel Prize winning guru of GW - Al Gore - had his energy bills for just one of his houses released under the Freedom of Information Act

Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.
"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."

Flying less might not 'have a negative impact' on your life, but it would have a large impact on my life - having family in the USA and owning a property in the USA.

Some people with extreme views might criticise you and I for using a computer and posting on internet chat rooms.

Not all the measures proposed are designed to reduce energy consumption, just make it emit less carbon.

Nuclear power is very clean, but despite their internal differences -GreenPeace who were at Copenhagen in strength - can't forget Aldermaston and Greenham Common, so put out this tripe:

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/nuclear

dixie_dean_2

Why do you have to move the point back to point scoring? Who gives a f*ck about al gore?

Yes, agree, flying is a difficult one but with regard the property, that is a choice that you have made. I think Al gore's film title is great. It is an inconvenient truth (in my opin ion a truth) that we'd just like to ignore. Much like the fact that excessive drinking is very bad for you yet we all still do it as it's easier not to change or even think about it. Unfortunately there is a point where we do have to accept changes to your life. I suggest getting a holiday home in Yorkshire, in fact, whilst you're at it, move the family there too.

Cardew

dixie_dean wrote: »

Why do you have to move the point back to point scoring?

Because it is 'point scoring' to ask what the Deniers think about conservation. The implication being????

cepheus

Cardew wrote: »

You don't seem to appreciate why people are so upset about the content of the leaked emails.

What particular content are you upset about? Do you have any reason to get upset, have you studied the entire script and reports, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon of CONSPIRACY calling?

Cardew wrote: »

It is patently obvious that these scientists were not prepared to present unbiased information, but hell-bent on suppressing any evidence that did not support their 'position'.

Is it? What evidence do you have they were not attempting to reject bad science and stop politically motivated authors just making things up?

Cardew wrote: »

Your position appears to be one of blind faith that the man-made GW scientists are correct and there should be no debate on that 'position'. That those discovering evidence is being suppressed and daring to publish those facts should be prosecuted.

Not at all, I work in a closely related discipline and it is obvious the scientific debate was over long ago, beyond reasonable doubt at any rate. The only real debate is political, which is one the scientists are losing because they keep using rational arguments and facts to justify their view, rather than the tried and tested techniques which Deniers use, such as reiteration (volcanoes produce more CO2, no they do, they really do....., sowing confusion (water vapour is the main greenhouse gas), emphasising personality differences (they are eggheads, we had difficulty understanding science like you) and appealing to greed (its all an excuse by governments to raise taxes)

I have debated with career Deniers and presented the evidence time and time again until blue in the face. It is quite obvious to me they have little intention of understanding the science, their motives are of a corrupt nature.

Scientists are handicapped by not being interested in PR and Machiavellian techniques of manipulation and deceit. They are handicapped by the public wanting to believe the Deniers. Scientists work is hard enough without getting into all that nonsense, even if they wanted to.

Why should we allow the Denier lobby to deliberately sabotage the planet? Is their right to lie and deceive more important?

Cardew

cepheus wrote: »

Why should we allow the Denier lobby to deliberately sabotage the planet? Is their right to lie and deceive more important?

I give up!

Let's burn all Deniers at the stake - except that might contribute to Global Warming!

So you will have to find another way to silence any opposition!

cepheus

I don't know what you expect scientists to do, keep on arguing with people whose sole purpose is to delay whilst they fill their pockets and they can pull the ladder up? Why not suggest a solution? Electorates go off impressions, not facts, the media control impressions not scientists. There are laws to protect people against blatant deceitful lies such as the example I gave, why not society as a whole? The only other thing I can think of is some kind of eco-socialist revolution and I'm sure your not in favour of that!

Its beyond belief. You are saying allow Plimer to market an established unambiguous lie to mislead people into believing that they can safely keep on emitting greenhouse gases regardless of the consequences. What are you playing at?

evilgoose

I feel that the change of name from global warming to climate change is based more on the fact that the phenomenon is far more encompassing the the earth than just 'warming' - some parts of the globe will experience a level of cooling due to the effect of warm ocean currents etc been weakened (the UK been a prime example). Or a change in the seasons, monsoons earlier or later (or maybe not at all) seasonal winds like the mistraal changing. Unseasonal strong winds - like we have had recently - destroying trees which are not 'designed' for strong winds - the list could go on and on.....

Even if you don't agree with it - do you really want to fill every possible hole in the ground with our rubbish - a large percentage if which could have been recycled.

Yes there is a cyclical pattern of global cooling and warming - however - man is accelerating this! I for one would hate to loose the beauty of a frosty British morning or the sight of a crisp and clean snow covered field.

Is it really so difficult to wear a jumper and close a window rather than turn the heating up? Even if you dont give a damn about the future - consider your pocket and if you've got enough money not to give a damn about that either - (good luck to you for your hopefully hard work) but I'd like to suggest that you take a long look at your life and consider doing some good with your excess money! rant over and a Merry Christmas.

Cardew

cepheus wrote: »

I don't know what you expect scientists to do, keep on arguing with people whose sole purpose is to delay whilst they fill their pockets and they can pull the ladder up?

The job of scientists is to present facts, pure unadulterated facts!

We elect politicians, to make the decisions!

zartub

cepheus wrote: »

A less well known fact is that the UK is the highest historic contributor to Greenhouse Gases after the US.

a good majority of all the other country's in the world have moved over here to the uk by the look of it !