are bank charges theft ?

gas1975

i was just wondering if banks could be charged with the criminal offense of obtaining property by deception ?
if you believe that the banks can only charge you say £5 - £10 for the admin etc connected with the overdraft charge and they then charge you £25 -£35 for it then that constitutes obtaining property by deception as the bank knows it only costs between £5 - £10 but charge you £25 , they are depriving the owner of property by way of deception (saying it costs more than it does, and charging you the £25 ,saying that is what it costs , well they should prove that but if they cannot then does that not mean they are committing an illegal action )
does anyone have any thoughts on this?

natweststaffmember

gas1975 wrote: »

i was just wondering if banks could be charged with the criminal offense of obtaining property by deception ?
if you believe that the banks can only charge you say £5 - £10 for the admin etc connected with the overdraft charge and they then charge you £25 -£35 for it then that constitutes obtaining property by deception as the bank knows it only costs between £5 - £10 but charge you £25 , they are depriving the owner of property by way of deception (saying it costs more than it does, and charging you the £25 ,saying that is what it costs , well they should prove that but if they cannot then does that not mean they are committing an illegal action )
does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Absolutely not....

BankReclaimRebel

I'm hoping this is what the OFT are looking into this as we speak, as they have done with the Credit Card Industry....

natweststaffmember

BankReclaimRebel wrote: »

I'm hoping this is what the OFT are looking into this as we speak, as they have done with the Credit Card Industry....

Since when?

BankReclaimRebel

natweststaffmember wrote: »

Since when?

What do you mean since when? They recommended a £12.00 maximum charge for late payments, bounced DD etc etc I wouldn't have been able to claim my charges back from Capital One otherwise....

This is what I'm hoping the OFT are looking into with the banks for overdraft charges etc

natweststaffmember

BankReclaimRebel wrote: »

What do you mean since when? They recommended a £12.00 maximum charge for late payments, bounced DD etc etc I wouldn't have been able to claim my charges back from Capital One otherwise....

This is what I'm hoping the OFT are looking into with the banks for overdraft charges etc

I hope you reclaimed the £12 as well because the OFT did not say that the amount they were stating was legally binding either on you. Please tell me you didn;t accept the difference?

gas1975

look at this then

Fraud by false representation
(1)
A person is in breach of this section if he— (a)
dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b)
intends, by making the representation— (i)
to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)
to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.





(2)
A representation is false if— (a)
it is untrue or misleading, and

(b)
the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.



(3)
“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of— (a)
the person making the representation, or

(b)
any other person.



(4)
A representation may be express or implied.

(5)
For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).



3
Fraud by failing to disclose information
A person is in breach of this section if he— (a)
dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and

(b)
intends, by failing to disclose the information— (i)
to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)
to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.






4
Fraud by abuse of position
(1)
A person is in breach of this section if he— (a)
occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

(b)
dishonestly abuses that position, and

(c)
intends, by means of the abuse of that position— (i)
to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)
to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.





(2)
A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act.




5
“Gain” and “loss”
(1)
The references to gain and loss in sections 2 to 4 are to be read in accordance with this section.

(2)
“Gain” and “loss”— (a)
extend only to gain or loss in money or other property;

(b)
include any such gain or loss whether temporary or permanent;


and “property” means any property whether real or personal (including things in action and other intangible property).

(3)
“Gain” includes a gain by keeping what one has, as well as a gain by getting what one does not have.

(4)
“Loss” includes a loss by not getting what one might get, as well as a loss by parting with what one has.

natweststaffmember

The obvious thing that kinda sticks out on that is that it continues to refer to "a person" and not a company.

gas1975

Liability of company officers for offences by company
(1)
Subsection (2) applies if an offence under this Act is committed by a body corporate.

(2)
If the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of— (a)
a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or

(b)
a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity,


he (as well as the body corporate) is guilty of the offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.

(3)
If the affairs of a body corporate are managed by its members, subsection (2) applies in relation to the acts and defaults of a member in connection with his functions of management as if he were a director of the body corporate.

BankReclaimRebel

natweststaffmember wrote: »

I hope you reclaimed the £12 as well because the OFT did not say that the amount they were stating was legally binding either on you. Please tell me you didn;t accept the difference?

Yes, all were claimed back including the £12 charges, luckily they paid what I asked for without going to the FOS...

natweststaffmember

gas1975 wrote: »

Liability of company officers for offences by company
(1)
Subsection (2) applies if an offence under this Act is committed by a body corporate.

(2)
If the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of— (a)
a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or

(b)
a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity,


he (as well as the body corporate) is guilty of the offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.

(3)
If the affairs of a body corporate are managed by its members, subsection (2) applies in relation to the acts and defaults of a member in connection with his functions of management as if he were a director of the body corporate.

Proving it will be difficult ie that it was a deliberate act. Is there case law that can be relied on as well(cos that will have a bearing on the outcome)?