Welfare state costs £473 BILLION!!!!

MissMoneypenny

HammerSmashedFace wrote: »

Remember Max Headroom's post a few months ago ?, if the guy hadn't luckily paid all his mortgage off before he got made redundant he would have been sleeping on a park bench with some newspapers for blankets as the welfare state stuck two fingers at him because he was on his own, all this after paying taxes for the whole of his working life (20 odd years if I remember), totally disgusting.

Single homeless people do get given council flats.

Max would have had his mortgage interest paid at a very generous rate of 6.08% (I assume Gordon is still hoping for votes) instead of the rate the government is meant to pay of 2.08% (1.58% over bank base rate) if he didn't have savings or a mortgage protection insurance.

Agreed that the benefits paid to healthy singles is really poor compared to those who claim the sick or have children.

PasturesNew

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Single homeless people do get given council flats.

Not in most places. Not everywhere has council flats, which tend to be in cities only. Where I grew up there weren't places for single people; 1-bed places built were OAP bungalows.

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Max would have had his mortgage interest paid at a very generous rate of 6.08% (I assume Gordon is still hoping for votes) instead of the rate the government is meant to pay of 2.08% (1.58% over bank base rate) if he didn't have savings or a mortgage protection insurance.

He didn't have a mortgage. I think how much they pay of the mortgage etc is quite shrouded in mystery too.

I think he would have qualified as he was on income-based JSA, but if he'd been (say) self-employed, or for any other reason not had a job for any period of time in the previous 2 years, he wouldn't have qualified for it: http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/Customers/WorkingAgeBenefits/Dev_016128.xml.html

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Agreed that the benefits paid to healthy singles is really poor compared to those who claim the sick or have children.

£64/week, with no further freebies. £275/month.

bambam101

You all mostly agree that their are too many people on benefits, and as a responsible grown-up democracy we can't just cut people's money off as the negative sides of this would be more crime, children (who are blameless) being thrown into poverty, and an increase in homelessness. So what do you all think the positive pro-active steps could be to improve peoples live and stop them becoming "financially institutionalized" on the UK benefits system, and does the government do enough to help people get back to work, and as we are in a recession, what jobs are out there to place people on benefits in.

Davesnave

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

Dave please don't think I'm getting at genuine cases I'm talking about people who use the very problems you talk about to their advantage.
It's just too easy to look these things up,(what does'nt the internet tell you) and then declare you suffer from them.
It's not easy to disprove,surely you know that but very unfair for genuine sufferers like yourself.

That was all 20 years ago. I think things have moved forward a bit since then. At that time ME was often regarded as 'in the mind' too. I had two friends who developed that, both gifted in different ways and very conscientious people.

My point was that, whatever people 'get,' they shouldn't be encouraged to stay on the sick, though it might mean pushing a few out of their comfort zones. In the case of my ME friends, they had to accept their 'normal' jobs were over, but both re-trained to do something in a similar vein which they could handle.

As I understand it, benefits to the long term sick have been under closer review in recent times, and that's no bad thing. As bambam says though, what jobs are there for the vulnerable in a recession and who will employ them? Someone known to me was getting back into work after three years on benefits following a major breakdown, but among the first casualties of the local authority cuts was the centre where she'd picked up the threads of secretarial work. She's back at home now, twiddling her thumbs. Sadly, it's cheaper to pay her to do nothing.

StevieJ

bambam101 wrote: »

You all mostly agree that their are too many people on benefits, and as a responsible grown-up democracy we can't just cut people's money off as the negative sides of this would be more crime, children (who are blameless) being thrown into poverty, and an increase in homelessness. So what do you all think the positive pro-active steps could be to improve peoples live and stop them becoming "financially institutionalized" on the UK benefits system, and does the government do enough to help people get back to work, and as we are in a recession, what jobs are out there to place people on benefits in.

You won't get many thanks for that sensible balanced view

The_White_Horse

just make them work for their benefit rather than sitting around watching jeremy kyle.

i would be more pleased if claimants had to put on a suit and attend a venue 9-5 each day - even if they did nothing there except read or look for jobs - before getting their free cash.

it will give their lives order. i'm sick of lazy chavs laying in bed until lunchtime, then going out to stand around a street corner.

get this filth off the street.

MissMoneypenny

PasturesNew wrote: »

Not in most places. Not everywhere has council flats, which tend to be in cities only. Where I grew up there weren't places for single people; 1-bed places built were OAP bungalows.

Cornwall? I know of a single homeless male in Cornwall who got a council flat. He was one of four children (four different fathers) who didn't get on with his mother as he got into a lot of trouble and didn't work so was homeless. His well behaved, hard working, brother couldn't have a council flat

PasturesNew wrote: »

He didn't have a mortgage. I think how much they pay of the mortgage etc is quite shrouded in mystery too.

As he didn't have a mortgage, that is why he wouldn't have got any mortgage payments - unless he was an MP.:D
This thread about mortgage payments from the benefits board
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2035725

PasturesNew wrote: »

I think he would have qualified as he was on income-based JSA, but if he'd been (say) self-employed, or for any other reason not had a job for any period of time in the previous 2 years, he wouldn't have qualified for it: http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/Customers/WorkingAgeBenefits/Dev_016128.xml.html

Don't some self employed choose to pay a reduced stamp and that is why they can't claim some benefits? Those with mortgage insurances seem to be able to claim from their policies when they are on either type of JSA and can even continue to sign on to CBCSA when their benefits payments have stopped, for their stamp and insurances to keep paying. Everyone with a mortgage should have these policies.

PasturesNew wrote: »

£64/week, with no further freebies. £275/month.

I've been reading the benefits, mortgages and bankruptcy boards as there seems to be a truer picture of what is happening to the economy from those boards. I'm shocked:eek: by the large amount of benefits paid to some parents (singles and couples) through tax credits and then some even complain that it isn't enough!

MissMoneypenny

The_White_Horse wrote: »

just make them work for their benefit rather than sitting around watching jeremy kyle.

I met someone over the summer who expressed the same sentiments. The interesting thing was that although she only worked 16 hours a week to make sure she gets working tax credits as well as the child tax credits for her two school age children, she didn't seem to see herself as a benefit claiment.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

I met someone over the summer who expressed the same sentiments. The interesting thing was that although she only worked 16 hours a week to make sure she gets working tax credits as well as the child tax credits for her two school age children, she didn't seem to see herself as a benefit claiment.

That's an interesting point actually.
Some working people claiming tax credits seem to make sure they work the system to their benefit too.
It's the whole system that needs to be seen too not just the unemployed section.

Mr.Brown_4

Welfare state costs £473 BILLION!!!!

I can't be bothered to read this thread. It will be the usual welfare state stuff. One observation, therefore, that may have already been made.

It's about half what we gave to bail out the banks. Small change really.