Dogue De Bordeaux Puppy

Paradigm

hethmar wrote: »

What are the insurance costs like for them guys? Just out of interest as I know AXA has stopped covering Mastiffs.

£20 a month each with Animal friends.

hethmar

Very good price. What cover is that for please? I know the co op has some sort of tie in with animal friends.

MrsTinks

Paradigm - they sound just like the Old English Mastiffs I used to live next door to I loved them to bits and they were truely gorgeous - slobbery monsters that they were :rotfl:
But extreemly protective of their people! Because we shared a back garden and in summer my door would be left open they used to come in and wake me in the morning with a slobbery kiss LOL They didn't have a mean bone in their bodies but they would have taken the head of anyone trying to hurt their people... when next door had a baby they had to be taken next door to me as they wouldn't let the grandparents any where near the baby... Whilst I agree with their judgement on that count it was something that DID present an issue and as a result we had a 6 foot VERY solid fence round the garden... 100kg of male mastiff can be hard to contain if aggevated!
Walking them was fun too - 99% of the time it was a dream walking them - but IF they caught scent of something then you would have your job cut out trying to stop them going where they pleased!
I am sure that DDB are different in many ways but in pure size they are much the same... and whilst they never meant any harm then kids tended to go flying near them... the tails are like bull whips and they can knock over an adult with little bother let along a child that accidently gets in their way...
I think the OEM are gorgeous, but I wouldn't recommend them around someone with young children... They are simply too big and as you say... they are not the couchpotatos people think although they WILL happily take over the couch

foreign_correspondent

hethmar wrote: »

I was just thinking that a 7 year old girl may be ok with drool all over her face and clothes, but when she is a teenager, she may not be quite as keen.

I wonder how many people would really be happy with a drooling dog - it is one thing that would put me off I am afraid, from a personal standpoint.

From an ethical standpoint the short life, and poor quality of life a lot of these dogs must endure due to health problems worries me more though:

From the breed club web site (I believe cancer is also quite common in this breed?):
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IMPORTANT INFORMATION - PLEASE READ[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Health Issues in the Dogue de Bordeaux[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Like many large breeds, Hip Dysplasia and Elbow Dysplasia are health issues that can affect the Dogue de Bordeaux. Other health concerns include Demodectic Mange, Bloat, heart problems, and Skin disease. In addition, the Dogue de Bordeaux is a very fast growing dog — puppies can gain 2 to 4 pounds per week on average — and may experience Eosinophilic Panosteitis (Pano). Hypothyroidism is also a common condition in all giant breed dogs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hip & Elbow Dysplasia[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Canine Hip Dysplasia afflicts millions of dogs each year and can result in debilitating orthopaedic disease of the hip. It is caused when the femoral head does not fit properly in the hip socket, causing instability of the joint. Over time, this malformation can cause degenerative joint disease which causes increased pain and immobility[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Elbow Dysplasia may be due to different growth rates of the three bones making up the elbow. In affected dogs, the joint is lax or loose and, in mildly affected dogs, leads to painful arthritis. Severely affected dogs can develop Osteochondritis Dissecans (OCD), fragmented medial coronoid processes and united anconeal processes resulting from the stress in the joint. Elbow Dysplasia is less common in Dogue de Bordeaux.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Through selective breeding strategies, veterinarians and breeders are attempting to eliminate Canine Hip Dysplasia. All breeding dogs should be x-rayed and hip scored using the KC/BVA hip scoring scheme before mating[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Panosteitis (Pano)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Also known as "long bone disease," "wandering lameness," or "pano.") Most commonly seen between the ages of five to 12 months. Pano is caused by excessive bone production on the long bones. Normally, a dog affected by this condition will grow out of the problem, but it is painful.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Diet is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of Pano. High protein puppy diets may make the puppy grow too fast and increase the chance of the pup experiencing Pano which is also sometimes described as "growing pains." Pano can also show up in any leg and may come and go without warning. Puppies usually completely outgrow Pano by the age of 18 months and it rarely goes beyond two years. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bloat[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gastric Dilatation Volvulus (GDV) is a condition caused by a twisting of the stomach and thus trapping the stomach contents and gases resulting in a rapid swelling of the abdomen accompanied by pain and eventual death if untreated. It is an emergency, requiring immediate veterinary action. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This condition is most often found in large, deep chested dog breeds. Anyone owning a deep chested breed, susceptible to Bloat should be prepared to handle the emergency procedures necessary, including having readily available the name and phone number of emergency clinics and/or after-hours Veterinarians.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Symptoms can be subtle. You should learn to recognize them:[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Continuous pacing and/or lying down in odd places [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Salivating, panting, whining [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Unable to get comfortable [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Acting agitated Unproductive vomiting or retching (may produce frothy foamy vomit in small quantities) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Excessive drooling, usually accompanied by retching noises [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Swelling in abdominal area (may or may not be noticeable[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If ANY combination of these symptoms is noticed, CALL YOUR VET and get the dog there as fast as possible. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bloat is LIFE-THREATENING.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hypothyroidism[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Canine Hypothyroidism is the most commonly diagnosed hormonal disease found in dogs. The term hypothyroidism simply means the underproduction of thyroxin, the hormone produced by the thyroid gland. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The thyroid gland is located on the trachea (wind pipe) of the dog, just below the voice box. It exerts its influence on the dog's body by producing and releasing thyroxin into the blood stream. This hormone, and thus, the thyroid gland itself, is very important in controlling growth and development and maintaining normal protein, carbohydrate and lipid metabolism of the dog. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hypothyroidism usually occurs between the ages of two to six years. The most common sign is an increase in body weight. Lethargy and some form of skin disease (i.e., thin coat, loss of hair, dandruff, oily skin, increased scratching) are also common signs of Hypothyroidism.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The treatment is through thyroid hormone supplementation given orally once or twice a day. Usually thyroid supplementation improves the clinical signs associated with the disease within four to six weeks. All the clinical signs of hypothyroidism are reversible, once treatment is started. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Demodectic Mange[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Caused by a microscopic mite known as Demodex Canis which all dogs raised normally by their mothers possess. These mites are transferred from mother to pup during the first few days of life. The mites are normal residents in dog skin; however, for some dogs, the mites proliferate and can cause serious skin disease.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note 1: Demodectic Mange is not contagious and mites are not transmitted to humans or other dogs (except the mother dog to her pups). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note 2: Sarcoptic Mange is a completely different disease[/FONT].

Lobell

Please do not buy any old puppy of this breed (or any breed for that matter). Just because you don't want to breed or show, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have the best quality puppy available. 'Just a pet' is the most important role any dog can fulfil and should be ethically bred and lovingly reared by its breeder.

Some good advice here already but I'd like to reiterate/add a few things...

You will undoubtedly come across adverts on the less reptable advertising sites that inite you to purchase a 'rare' DDB/French Mastiff puppy. They are NOT rare. They are churned out in increasingly greater numbers, all to often by puppy farmers and back yard breeders cashing in on the popularity of the breed. These people are not breeding with health or temperament in mind...more likely they are breeding with a holiday to Disney World or a new suite of furniture in mind.

There are, on average, 2000 DDBs registered with the Kennel Club every year. Probably as many again that don't get/can't be registered with the KC. This is a relatively large number - more than double my breed which is a long established one in this country with the breed club dating back to the 1800s and my breed certainly isn't considered rare. DDBs are relatively new to the UK so it's a little worrying for the breed that they are already being produced in such numbers.

When looking for a good breeder - one that has invested masses of time in energy in the little bundle that will hopefully spend the next 10 - 12 years as a trusted famly companion - you'd do well to begin with the breed club. Ideally, both parents should be hip and elbow scored. An acceptable hip score for this breed is anything less than 23 in total but the lower the better. Elbows are scored 0-3. Again, 0 is perfect, 1 is acceptable if the dog is exceptional in every other way; 2+3 are to be avoided, IMO. As far as I know, not that many DDB breeders are routinely carrying out these tests but, as the owner of large/giant breeds, I wouldn't touch any large breed puppy that had been bred without the parents having these tests as a minimum with a barge pole. I've been through major joint surgery with my rescued large breed...twice. It's not only expensive, it's bloody heartbreaking.

Also, if the breeder owns both the mother and father, ask why they did the mating. A good breeder rarely owns both the mother and father...they will use the most suitable stud dog for their !!!!! which may be up the road or, more likely, many hundreds of miles away. Very rarely they might own both but will explain at length about compatibility of lines/pedigrees. Both dogs being owned by the breeder should ring alarm bells so do ask questions.

Good breeders are striving to always improve the health and temeprament of a breed. Believe me, you do not want a powerful dog of that size in your life with an iffy temperament. Buying from a puppy farmer/BYB will NOT save you money. Not only do they generally charge about the same as the very best breeders but the potential for heartache and massive vet bills is is exponentially greater. Take your time, do your research and get a dog that will be a joy to share your life with for many years to come.

lostinrates

Lobell wrote: »

An acceptable hip score for this breed is anything less than 23 in total but the lower the better. Elbows are scored 0-3. Again, 0 is perfect, 1 is acceptable if the dog is exceptional in every other way; 2+3 are to be avoided, IMO. As far as I know, not that many DDB breeders are routinely carrying out these tests but, as the owner of large/giant breeds, I wouldn't touch any large breed puppy that had been bred without the parents having these tests as a minimum with a barge pole. I've been through major joint surgery with my rescued large breed...twice. It's not only expensive, it's bloody heartbreaking..

What an informative post!

FWIW our giant breeds are not hip scored, and so I am not familiar with it really (we don't have a problem swith dysplasia) but I was staggared at the score. The gun dogs I walk have single digit scores and when a related dog scored a double digit the breeder was very concerned (although told me it ws well within normal range) and altered her breeding plans as a result.

Its always interesting to learn a little something new, thank you.

gettingready

Lobell - excellent post.

I got my GS kind of "second hand" - she was advertised on Gumtree at 16 weeks by people who bought her at 8 weeks but at 16 weeks "she grew too big".

Saw her photo, with a little plastic toy car (!!!!) and broght her home the same evening.

I was aware of problems GS can have and realised I may be taking on a ticking time bomb as I had no clue where my girl came from really.

She has elbow problems from day one, costed a fortune to sort out but I would never be without her.

I wanted a rescue GS but was turn down by every rescue I have approached - I work, I live in a flat... yeah rite.... potential bad, bad, bad person to take a rescue dog on.

If I was not working I could never afford the bills I have paid to the vets, insurance, the food she needs etc etc.

I live in a flat yes - we are surrounded by massive (massive massive) green on one side and woodlands with lakes on the other (and yes, it is still a London post code LOL). My girl have more fun on her walks with her dog mates than most dogs get stuck between fences in their gardens - and rescues are full because they never give people like me a chance to take a dog on.

I work, yes - so I pay for a dog walker who takes my girl out at lunchtime for a fun walk with 4 other dogs.

Me baddddddddddddddddddd ... ;-)

jenhug

I have Mastiffs, (They are Mastiff's NOT Old English Mastiff's, there is actually no such thing as the latter)

Size wise DDB's are similar to a Bull Mastiff. My friend has a couple of DDB's, and they are adorable. They are loving, loyal, and are a head strong breed.

Yes, they drool, it gets EVERYWHERE. Literally.

Personally I wouldn't even contemplate getting any puppy with a 2 year old.

Do lots of research and good luck.

MrsTinks

Wikipedia disagrees - but pardon me for calling them what I was told by their owners that they were called

lostinrates

MrsTine wrote: »

Wikipedia disagrees - but pardon me for calling them what I was told by their owners that they were called

Its a country thing I think. Wikipedia (as you m ight guess from its own spelling) can be very US-centric It doesn't really matter IMO, the sense of what breed was being spoken of is not lost.