Should i pay for remedial work on a house i am about to buy? ADVICE PLEASE!!!

pjminton5

I am in the process of buying a house as a first time buyer. i have had an offer accepted and the survey has come back that i need the house damp proofing and timber work done. the total cost of the work is just over £1000. the house was on the market for £129000 and i got it for £123000. Should i have to pay for this remedial work? or should the vendor?

i can see the vendor saying no, because they have already dropped the price. however money is tight and i know that they bought the house for £60000 nine years ago.

Any help or negotiating advice please?

Regards

AMILLIONDOLLARS

The answer is No! If they have already dropped the price and are not willing to reduce it anything further. Then the decision is down to you whether you wish to proceed. It doesn't matter what they bought it for nine years ago, its what you're willing to pay now that matters.

In the scheme of things £1000 is not too bad, and could be negotiated down with a builder!!

AMD

tbs624

pjminton5 wrote: »

I am in the process of buying a house as a first time buyer. i have had an offer accepted and the survey has come back that i need the house damp proofing and timber work done. the total cost of the work is just over £1000. the house was on the market for £129000 and i got it for £123000. Should i have to pay for this remedial work? or should the vendor?

i can see the vendor saying no, because they have already dropped the price. however money is tight and i know that they bought the house for £60000 nine years ago.

It's irrelevant what they paid for it. If you want the house, you have to pay what the vendor wants for it/ the going rate for a similar property in that area (assuming any are available) or be prepared to look elsewhere.

Did your survey suggest that you got in a specialist damp/timber surveyor?

Who has said that the work will cost £1K?

Oldernotwiser

Don't forget to allow for the costs of replastering after the damp proof course has been put in.

pjminton5

yeah this is a quote from an expert damp/timber surveyor. i suppose i will reluctantly pay the money for the work if it comes to it; however if it is not the done thing obviously in an ideal stuaton the vendor will pay for the work seeing as if it is not done the house will not sell.

tbs624

Was the "expert" an independent, or were they from a firm who.. erm ...make their money by flogging timber treatments and DPCs?

Poster called David Aldred may be able to make some useful suggestions for you.

It's not necessarily true that the property wont sell without the "necessary" work that you have listed down. Another surveyor may say different, and another purchaser may absolutely want the house regardless.

pjminton5

Yes the company was recommended from the estate agents (Edward Mellor) the survey was (surprise surprise) free and as i thought there is work to be done.

clutton_2

""i suppose i will reluctantly pay the money for the work if it comes to i

have you not understood how the conveyancing proces works... there is an underlying legal principle which all property law enshrines " Caveat Emptor which means buyer beware"

this means that it is up to you to do all and any research which you see fit, it is not up to the vendor to assist you in that - it is not up to the vendor to go out of their way to tell you of faults, to repair faults, or to make his own position worse....

the vendor has offered a new price, you can

accept that price
ask for a reduction
walk away

but dont moan - this is all part of the ridiculousness of the English house buying process.. - its much simpler in Scotland

David_Aldred

Hi pjminton5,
Please have a read at mine and others posts on here of a more technical nature regarding damp, damp proof course / dpc, condensation, basements, woodworm, rot, cavity wall ties, cavity wall isulation, loft conversions, chimney breasts, plastering, all of which may be of assistance to you during this stressful house buying time.

I have trotted out a few points below just for cynical fun which sprung to mind as a quickie response but in truth if you are after a bargaining tool the true independent specialist surveyor is likely to find you a lot more faults than a simple guess at dpc failure so it might be worth you looking up one in your area by going upon the Propery Care Association (PCA) website and looking under find a member and then selecting Freelance or Consultant (the rest are contractors) and giving one a ring for a chat to discuss your particular property in detail.

Good posts by everyone previously and as I said just for fun here is a quick top 20:

1. Like most things in life the house is worth as much as you are willing to pay and others are prepared to lend you to fund what you want to pay. You can come up with all the surveys and reports you like but the seller can just turn around and say if you want this house then £K is the price you are going to have to pay me for it. If the seller drops the price because they are keen to close the deal / move etc then there may be room for negotiation.

2. Your comment that the so called expert is independent but did the survey for "free" (now come on, please have a think that should have set alarm bells going immediately, as nothing is ever for free in this world is it? so yes there is a catch) flags that the survey you had done was by a contractor selling treatments for their own profit and not a true independent specialist surveyor (there is a big big difference) and I say that simply because the true independent specialist surveyor has no income other than the survey fee so hence if they did surveys for "free" they could not be in business. The survey by the true independent is always charged for a couple of hours on site minimum and then usually a full day writing the report specific to that property by hand with drawings photographs explanations of what and why and what to do about everything that could possibly be seen at time of visit for that property as a whole.

3. Estate agents have a reputation for being slippery eels at the best of times and do not usually recommend contractors unless that contractor has either officially or sometimes unofficially paid them for the referral. "You steer the buyers my way and I'll make sure I sort you out wink wink". You better wipe those letters that say "mug" off your forehead and start to open your eyes a little otherwise you are going to get a shock when the faults you see now return because the damp contractor did not address all of the issues going on and even worse if you have the place beautiful by then and come to sell only for the same faults to come back up and you have to drop the price.

4. It can be said fairly confidently that the contractor will have not have proved rising dampness because that can only be undertaken by laboratory anlaysis at considerable cost and disruption of each and every wall under investigation and unless they took such samples you are getting spun a line. Any suggestion that they have established rising dampness is simply untrue. They are guessing for their own financial gain and statistically rising dampness should always be the last moisture source to be considered and never the first. The majority of contractors are unqualified to write the reports you rely upon and as such they have no professional indemnity to cover the advice or recommendations they dish out. They might be insured to do actual work but that is something entirely different and the vast majority have no insurance to write reports or give advice leaving them wide open to a claim of negligence both against their company and against themselves personally.

5. If they claim to have found active woodworm at this time of year that will be an exceptional occurrence because common furniture beetle (often called woodworm) usually only emerge from the wood from late Spring to late Summer. So ask to see a LIVE beetle removed from a piece of timber in your presence from that house - if they cannot they are telling you porkys. If they have quoted for woodworm in the loft it should be industrial vacuumed out and there / anywhere else with painted / varnished timber needs to be taken back to bare wood - have they allowed for this and then putting back insulation to current standards ? Is the treatment justified ?

6. Any damp proof course work if justified you should insist they confirm in writing to be fully compliant with BS6576 and that they will fully comply with the Party Wall Act 1996. Any damp-proofing work below ground level to be fully compliant with BS8102.

7. Tell them they must confirm that any works to suspended timber ground floors will need to be guaranteed by them to maintain the moisture content in that timber below 20% and they will be liable for any timber that exceeds that moisture content (the threshold of decay) for any reason other than blocked vents or floods. In other words it is no good them quoting to replace flooring if they do not resolve the reason for the decay otherwise the new floor will decay just as much as the old one did.

8. Tell them if walls are cavity walls they must as stated in BS6576 clear all cavities of debris down to a level below the lowest original (not chemical) dpc so have they allowed for this?

9. Tell them to list in writing all external defects that are contributory to the problem that should be resolved first before considering dpc failure according to BS6576.

10. Tell them to list the results of their dew point analysis for each and every room at time for their visit for each and every wall to confirm whether or not condensation was occurring anywhere within that property at time of visit. If condensation was occurring then this moisture source should be resolved first and the property monitored for drying down before considering dpc failure.

11. Ask whether their chemcial dpc will be injected under floor joist level if indeed it is justified. This is to protect the floor joists from rising dampness. If they are not going to inject under floor joist level what procedures have they in place to protect the floor joists from rising dampness as required by BS6576? Are they going to put all the floor joists on joist hangers to isolate them from damp walls?

12. Ask to see a copy of their re-plastering specification and see whether it allows for raking out mortar beds 15mm deep to give any sand and cement re-plastering the required key to hang upon the wall.

13. Ask them to confirm that their re-plastering has to fulfil its design function of holding all salts back in the wall and to hold back any residual dampness in that wall and if it faisl to do so they will be liable.

14. Ask them whether they accept liability for any increase in dampness that may occur to the other side of the party wall when they re-plaster it with a hard dense cement plaster.

15. Ask them what about chimney breasts areas and the damp hearth and fire-backs / infill material - will they accept all liability for future dampness in this area - if not why not? If the hearth is damp how do they know that is not the cause of the dampness when they are saying it is just dpc failure? Ask them how can they possibly inject a dpc all the way through a chimney breast area or even worse a back to back chimney breast area?

16. Ask them to confirm in writing if they have supposedly "diagnosed rising dampness by electrical meter" whether they will guarantee to re-treat for free any time for the period of guarantee any future high reading found by using such an electrical damp meter? If not why not and if they won't treat in the future if anyone finds a high electrical damp meter reading at the base of the wall why are they suggesting you do so now?

17. Ask them if they will guarantee to seal all dampness emerging from the solid floor / wall joint irrespective of whether the dpc in the walls is effective or not. Ask them have they tested solid floors to see if they are damp and appropriate for laying moisture sensitive flooring?

18. Ask them how they will protect all timber at the base of the wall from any dampness emerging from gaps at the solid floor / wall joint including not only skirting but architraves, base of door frames, base of stairs?

19. Ask them will they be liable for any dampness and degraded plaster found at a later date behind fitted units ? If not what do they propose to do about these areas?

20. Ask them if their guarantee covers all consequential works if the walls become damp at a later date such as not only plastering but re-decoration, providing access, removing and re-fixing obstructions especially services etc ? If it does not cover this then why not ?

As I say please have a look at related topics on here and consider using where appropriate reports as bargaining tools within your purchase negotiations where such work is actually justified. Not only consider damp / timber reports but also cavity wall tie inspection survey by a true independent specialist surveyor, electrical report by NICEIC electrician, plumbing / gas report by GAS Safe (formerly CORGI) registered plumber, drain survey and where applicable structural engineers report. The electrician, plumber and drainage contractor should be told to provide reports with budget costing but on the understanding that they themselves will not be asked to do the job so they know from the start that their advice is simply that advice.

Also ask your legal advisor to check there are no adopted drain or other service / rights of way issues running across your land which could blight any extensions etc in the future and for them to enquire if there is any history of dry rot or settlement.

Kindest regards to all, David Aldred independent damp and timber surveyor

DVardysShadow

pjminton5 wrote: »

Yes the company was recommended from the estate agents (Edward Mellor) the survey was (surprise surprise) free and as i thought there is work to be done.

There is your answer. If the need for the work is reasonably apparent, and you offered without requiring the problems you saw to be sorted, then it should be sorted at your expense. But you are free to walk away.

If it was hidden and comes as a surprise, then seller should pay.

Either way, both parties can walk away from the deal.