What is an unfair parking notice

Devol

Hi guys

I see martin starts this subject by saying dont pay unfair PCN. What i ask is what is classed as unfair.

My son parked his mothers car at a retail car park and now they are chasing my wife for £75. i used martin's template to reply to them and told them to analise thier " photographic evidence" which would show them that it was a male driver. however they have come back demanding to know the identity of the driver and until this happens the ticket will remain valid in my wifes name. Oh and after 21 days it goes up to £95

Can they take me to court to identify the driver and will i be liable for court costs.

Should my son pay up as he did go over the allotted time you were allowed to park.

your advice is welcolmed

Orford

Read the sticky here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1363571

however they have come back demanding to know the identity of the driver and until this happens the ticket will remain valid in my wifes name.
You are not obliged to tell them anything

Oh and after 21 days it goes up to £95
It can go up to £9500, it won't be enforceable

Can they take me to court to identify the driver and will i be liable for court costs.
Their 'contract' is with the driver and that's who they would have to name in a court summons

Should my son pay up as he did go over the allotted time you were allowed to park.
Nobody should pay them, whoever was driving

Coupon-mad

Q: What is an unfair parking notice?

A: All of them , if issued by private parking companies

Martin Lewis just hedges his bets a little in his advice, as he has to ensure he is safe from accusations of libel etc. when he publicises such advice in the papers and on here. He knows they are all unfair I am sure (by virtue of the punative amount) but that would be a very brave statement for any journalist to make!

Now take our advice and do what you should have done to start with - ignore all correspondence about this fake fine. Just file the fake ticket and any letters they send to the registered keeper, just keep them in case you want evidence of their harassment in future.

It is NOT a fine, private companies cannot issue fines. It's a scam.

Do you know how many other threads like this one there are on here (maybe not, seeing as this was posted under the successes and failures sticky by mistake)? You would be surprised, but hopefully enlightened by the truth about this racket.

You just need to read this info in this sticky, written by Crabman:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?t=1363571

and then if you want to know how other people on here are getting on who are also in your shoes, then browse the whole sub-board of threads here (look for those where it's not a Council ticket, you'll see a common theme):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...lay.html?f=163

Having read all that then relax and file away the ticket. The fact that they may or may not have photographed your car is irrelevant as neither you, nor the registered keeper nor the driver have committed any offence.

If a neighbour took a snap of your car then asked you for £75 as a penalty for living next door to them, you'd tell them where to go, right? It's the same thing, it's not enforceable, you owe nothing!

Add to your 'file of trash' any letters that are sent about it in the coming months, including threatening/scary ones from Solicitors and Debt Collectors. Only post a new thread if you ever get served with Court papers. You won't.

DON'T PAY! DON'T APPEAL! DON'T WRITE TO THEM AGAIN!

Please ask your son to read this and the links provided so he understands it's OK to ignore this.

hth

Alx*27

You've done far too much already. Good as Martin is, the recognised advice is:

• do not pay
• do not contact them (that's exactly what they want you to do)
• ignore their threatening junkmail
• ignore any threatening junk from their powerless debt collectors (don't confuse them with bailiffs)
• they will give up and go away
• they will not take you to court

This is a MAIL SCAM. The charge is not enforceable - these parasitic companies merely send out letters and sit back for the cheques to arrive in the return post.

Ignore them and get on with your life.

Can they take me to court to identify the driver

No because it would be a complete abuse of the court process. It would like the police charging 10 people with murder and hoping the jury would pick the right one!
Anyway, court doesn't come into their business model because the charge isn't enforceable. Taking people to court for £95 is not the way to keep your business trading - it would be commercial suicide, even if they did have a legal leg to stand on.

ax_drifter

I have received a demand from euro car parks asking for £70 for parking in a car park I have never heard of, they don't give the street name. They are threatening to refer the matter to a solicitor if I don't pay, they give a name. My son uses the car most of the time and has a residential parking voucher naming several streets so wouldn't use a car park except for dropping off and would be well inside any time restrictions given for registering his intent to park. Neither of us knew anything until the letter arrived.
Sorry for being long winded, but does the ignore advice apply in scotland. Are the demands not legal here also.

trisontana

ax_drifter wrote: »

I have received a demand from euro car parks asking for £70 for parking in a car park I have never heard of, they don't give the street name. They are threatening to refer the matter to a solicitor if I don't pay, they give a name. My son uses the car most of the time and has a residential parking voucher naming several streets so wouldn't use a car park except for dropping off and would be well inside any time restrictions given for registering his intent to park. Neither of us knew anything until the letter arrived.
Sorry for being long winded, but does the ignore advice apply in scotland. Are the demands not legal here also.

Yes, this advice also applies to Scotland. Ignore. Their demands are not legal because no criminal law has been broken by the person parking on private land. All that can be claimed from the driver (if they can identify them) is the actual loss suffered by the land-owner. In this case I imagine it was either a free car-park or where you pay something like £1 an hour. In either case very, very little or no actual loss suffered by the land owner. In fact the parking company is breaking the law by demanding that £70.

Coblcris

I concur. Also, if the private parking company chose to attempt a claim based on compelled performance they would be doomed. They would have to be insane to attempt that.

Devol

Thank you for your views, i will take your advice and hold out. I will keep you informed if theyre demands keep coming.

thank again everyone

BFG_2

Welcome! *PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING*
Please start a new thread for your case (if you post in the discussion threads your post will not be seen by many) and take a look at these two threads which will be of assistance:

List of Terms/Acronyms/Abbreviations Used on this Board

How to Upload & Post Images (PCN/NtO/other paperwork)

Council Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs)
(Read Martin's Article)

1) SCAN the PCN (front and back) together with any other paperwork (200dpi should be fine). Pictures of the parking bay/signs/lines will also help.

2) BLANK out personal details (i.e. PCN serial number, car registration number, any name/address details) using Paint or equivalent image editing program to remove appropriate details.

3) UPLOAD to image hosting site and link from your thread - simply copy and paste the "direct link for layout" link which looks something like this: http://tinypic.com/xxxxxxxxx.jpg.

For detailed help with scanning, erasing and uploading, please see this thread:
How to Upload & Post Images (PCN/NtO/other paperwork)

4) MENTION which council issued the PCN/NtO if you're unable to scan paperwork.

Private Parking Companies (PPCs)
(Read Martin's Article)

1) PPC tickets (referred to by some as toilet paper ) are NOT fines or fixed penalties, they are invoices based on a presumed contract with the driver.

2) When posting, please don't mention your vehicle make/model or exact location and most importantly do NOT say who was driving. PPC trolls do read these and other forums and may try to use this information against you. Do not post any info that may identify you. It isn't usually necessary to post the 'ticket' from a PPC.

3) PPC charges have been shown to be generally unenforceable in Court, and they hardly ever issue proceedings, despite the threats in their intimidatory letters.

4) Do NOT write to the PPC to 'appeal' the ticket - the appeals process is a complete sham, they just want your money and thus will reject the 'appeal'.

5) If you don't take action on the ticket, the PPC will get the registered keeper's details from the DVLA, for a fee of £2.50. The registered keeper has no liability, since the presumed contract was formed with the driver. And, if you don't tell the PPC who was driving, they don't have a case.

6) Ignore the ticket completely until they've bought your details from the DVLA (costs just £2.50) and write to the registered keeper. Opinions vary on whether to send a template letter in reply or simply ignore all correspondence, however, anecdotal evidence from this forum and Pepipoo indicates that with the 'ignoring everything' option they will give up after a few scary looking letters and false threats of bailiffs/CCJs/credit record entries.

(thanks to bargepole for help in compiling the PPC section above)
--

P.S: Thanks to all who help out on the boards - for comments and feedback click here.

Neil_B

Devol wrote: »

Hi guys

and told them to analise thier " photographic evidence" which would show them that it was a male driver.

Superb! Give up the day job now!!

Alx*27

I have received a demand from euro car parks asking for £70 for parking in a car park I have never heard of, they don't give the street name. They are threatening to refer the matter to a solicitor if I don't pay, they give a name. My son uses the car most of the time and has a residential parking voucher naming several streets so wouldn't use a car park except for dropping off and would be well inside any time restrictions given for registering his intent to park. Neither of us knew anything until the letter arrived.
Sorry for being long winded, but does the ignore advice apply in scotland. Are the demands not legal here also.

Expect letters from Brinx and Credit Control. Ignore them and they will give up.

Some PPCs just buy batches of car registrations and send out letters to them. Highly fraudulent, but some people do pay up when they get a scary letters through the door.