Blue Lights

cyclonebri1

Viper_7 wrote: »

and this added how? The other posts seemed to clear things up and provide further clarity on the regulations.

What??? added'cos toooooshort

sebdangerfield

My 'puter realy doesn'y want me to post bullet points! I'll try again;

The other posts clear up what is an emergency vehicle. It's not clearly defined in law becaue of the amalgamation of several recue services but would definately include what you do.

You have the same exemptions under the Road traffic regulations act 1984 as other emergency service drivers, they are;

To exceed the speed limit,
Traet a red light as a give was and,
To drive to the right of a keep left sign.

The act does not state what driver training is required and it's accepted that it's the job and role rather than the qualifications that are exempt. This means that to comply with the law then you do not need any further training at all. However, S2 of the road traffic act (regarding dangerous driving) does state "police drivers will be judged against the same standard of care as other drivers (wood vs richards 1977)". As a result, if you were to use the exemptions and have a crash, the fact you're an emergency service driver would not cover you against prosecution for dangerous or careless driving should your driving fall below that expected of a reasonable and competent driver. Because of that I'd be very reluctant to use the exemptions if you had no further driver training.

For what it's worth, even though all Police officers are exempt from the rules above, ACPO guidlines state that only drivers trained to standard or intermediate level will exceed the speed limit by up to 20mph and only drive lower powered vehicles and only advanced drivers can use high performence vehicles and exceed the limit by what they themselves deem to be safe. other drivers must not exeed the speed limit. So depending on the circumstances you may not really need an advanced course, it just may be safer for you to do some form of further driving course.

gingerdad

sebdangerfield wrote: »

My 'puter realy doesn'y want me to post bullet points! I'll try again;

The other posts clear up what is an emergency vehicle. It's not clearly defined in law becaue of the amalgamation of several recue services but would definately include what you do.

You have the same exemptions under the Road traffic regulations act 1984 as other emergency service drivers, they are;

To exceed the speed limit,
Traet a red light as a give was and,
To drive to the right of a keep left sign.

The act does not state what driver training is required and it's accepted that it's the job and role rather than the qualifications that are exempt. This means that to comply with the law then you do not need any further training at all. However, S2 of the road traffic act (regarding dangerous driving) does state "police drivers will be judged against the same standard of care as other drivers (wood vs richards 1977)". As a result, if you were to use the exemptions and have a crash, the fact you're an emergency service driver would not cover you against prosecution for dangerous or careless driving should your driving fall below that expected of a reasonable and competent driver. Because of that I'd be very reluctant to use the exemptions if you had no further driver training.

For what it's worth, even though all Police officers are exempt from the rules above, ACPO guidlines state that only drivers trained to standard or intermediate level will exceed the speed limit by up to 20mph and only drive lower powered vehicles and only advanced drivers can use high performence vehicles and exceed the limit by what they themselves deem to be safe. other drivers must not exeed the speed limit. So depending on the circumstances you may not really need an advanced course, it just may be safer for you to do some form of further driving course.

We won't be doing any speed its more to let people know we are coming and hopeuflly get out of the way... we are looking at further driver training and will do as much as we can as at the end of the day if we do have a crash thats the point questions will be asked.

I think under the law as i read it we can't speed, go through red lights etc...

..
Thanks for all the useful replies

sebdangerfield

The RTRA 1984 gives the exemptions to all emergency services drivers. Mabe what you read is your policy as really, I think it's not acceptible in the modern world to allow an untrained driver to exceed the limit. The Sun would have a field day should the worst happed!

Out of interest, what exemptions did it say you could have?

gingerdad

sebdangerfield wrote: »

The RTRA 1984 gives the exemptions to all emergency services drivers. Mabe what you read is your policy as really, I think it's not acceptible in the modern world to allow an untrained driver to exceed the limit. The Sun would have a field day should the worst happed!

Out of interest, what exemptions did it say you could have?

not aware of any unless its a police/ambulance/fire in terms of the rules of the road, but we do have an LGV exemption but again we feel we need to pass a test to cover ourselves.

for us its more about visability and steady progress instead of out right speed if that makes sense. we are a back up service which needs to arrive quickly but not a break neck speed (usually we will be called once the police/fire/MCA etc are already on seen and they need our specialist kit).

GD

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Ah, I was incorrect then. Just emergency services vehicles. I was under the assumption that the services listed above operated under the control of the afore-mentioned three emergency services.

Sorry about that. My fault.

lisyloo

A number of my friends ride motorbikes on a voluntary basis to carry blood etc. (sometimes notes, medicines, xrays etc.)

They are all advanced (IAM, ROSPA) and have had additional training, but they are all volunteers.

They are allowed to use blue lights under very specific circumstances.

sebdangerfield

gingerdad wrote: »

not aware of any unless its a police/ambulance/fire in terms of the rules of the road, but we do have an LGV exemption but again we feel we need to pass a test to cover ourselves.

for us its more about visability and steady progress instead of out right speed if that makes sense. we are a back up service which needs to arrive quickly but not a break neck speed (usually we will be called once the police/fire/MCA etc are already on seen and they need our specialist kit).

GD

I understand and fully agree. It's just common sense not to get yourself into trouble really and try to get a little more training. As well as the other services you mentioned i'd be inclined to ask the local police station or Police driver training school if it's not at the local nick to ask for advice. Most of the courses for ambulance and fire originate from these guys and from experience they're more than willing to offer any sort of advice regarding any type of driving to the point of being rather anal about it!

sebdangerfield

BTW, kudos for doing such a sterling job.

Premier_2

gingerdad wrote: »

We won't be doing any speed its more to let people know we are coming and hopeuflly get out of the way...

I think you are hoping for a bit much there. Blue lights simply inform other road users of your presence. It is your responsibility to pass them if necessary to make progress, not for them to actively get out of your way although they may pull to the side of the road and slow down or stop. (but not mount kerbs/pavements)
If they are stopped at a red traffic light, they certainly should not pass the stop line to get out of your way.

Generally, you'll find inexperienced (and some not so inexperienced) drivers when faced with a vehicle with blue lights will panic and stop wherever they can, often on the approach to a brow of a hill or on a blind bend.
A very common place for some inexplicable reason is right next to a keep left traffic island so forcing you to navigate around the wrong side and possibly into oncoming traffic (who have no obligation to stop).