Electrician has fitted new sockets - certificate needed?

Foggy

I've just had a conservatory built by a long established local company with a good reputation. Overall they have done a good job but I am a little concerned about the two new double sockets installed.

A subcontracted electrician turned up an took a spur from a socket in the dining room and fed it to the two new sockets in the conservatory. Is this acceptable and should I have received some sort of certificate?

The conservatory guy is coming back to finish bits and pieces off so I will ask then but I would appreciate some advice from anyone in the know.

Alan_M_2

Due to the site of the socket being in a conservatory as opposed to Kitchen/Bathroom, the new regualtions are somewhat more relaxed, but you'll need an answer from a certified electrician to be completely sure. In my experiance this will be however they interpret the regulations.

Or you could always check the regulations yourself click the following link for the regulations:-

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/pub/910/ApproveddocumentPElectricalsafetyPDF901Kb_id1130910.pdf

HugoSP

OK, so the sparky has taken ONE spur from the main ring circuit and used this to feed TWO sockets?

This is against the regs ad unsafe. Only one socket or accessory can be fed off a spur. If you wanted two sockets then the simplest way would be to take two spurs of the ring main - one for each. Are you sure he hasn't done this?

That aside, if he has spured off the ring main correctly then this is a minor alteration and is not covered under Part P. Technically you could hae done this yourself and not even informed the BCO - and still stayed within the law.

H

---lee---

Are you sure he used a spur to feed two separate sockets? The 16th edition wiring regulations advise against this.

What’s more probable is that he has extended the sockets ring to one of the new sockets and then taken a spur from one of the new ones, to the other new one. That would be perfectly acceptable.

Coveredinbees!!!!

Unless the spurs are protected by a 13A fuse then you can have as many spurs as you like. You will have a seperate fuse unit feeding off to the spurs. If an electrician did the work you should get a minor electrical works certificate. If you didn't ask why, sounds like more wild west electrics.

HugoSP

Coveredinbees!!!! wrote:

Unless the spurs are protected by a 13A fuse then you can have as many spurs as you like. You will have a seperate fuse unit feeding off to the spurs.

Not sure I follow your logic there.

You can take unfused or fused spurs off the ring main. Fused spurs are often used to provide lighting, where you're gong down from a 2.5mm t and e to a 1.5 or even a 1mm t and e. In this case you may use a 3 amd fuse.

However fused spurs can also be used to supply other fixed equipment rated at 13amps.

The point I tried to make above is that only one socket can be taken from a spur. It can be a double or single but it must be only one socket. the same logic applies to any accessory (double pole switch etc).

Often with conservatories or extentions it is easy to take a few spurs off the ring main. This is acceptable. Not only that, they don't have to be wired from the sockets on the ring main. It is quite acceptable to wire them from Junction boxes. The main point being is that a spur fed from a single 2.5mm t and e should only feed one socket. Any more and there is deemed a significant risk of overloading the cable.

H

Coveredinbees!!!!

onsite guide page 153 -

The total number of fused spurs is unlimited but the number of unfused spurs should not exceed the total number of sockets outlets.

As long as the cable rating is sufficent and assuming the electrician used 2.5mm twin and earth and there isn't loads of cable, as long as the spurs are fused it's OK. The fuse must not excede 13A. The section of wiring forms a 13A radial circuit off from the main ring.

real1314

hugo, being an informed amatuer myself (the sort that knows what might be right, but gets someone else to do it/check it), I had the same thought, but i think it's just the way "covered" has phrased it:

"Unless the spurs are protected by a 13A fuse then (if he has put fused connections in) you can have as many spurs as you like."

Think the best thing for the op to do would be to ring local authority building regs, describe what's been done and ask what he/she should be getting from contractor. (and get the person's name that he/she speaks to!)

Cagey

Coveredinbees,you can take any amount of spurs of a ring main proided you do not exceed the amont of sockets in the ring but you can`t install more than one socket from that spur.
I do not know too much about part p but I would assume that this type of work was an alteration to the wiring & as such the installation should be tested & a completion certificate filled in & added to the homebuyers pack that everyone will soon have to have.

Coveredinbees!!!!

Again read your on site guide pg 152 and 153. Also have a look at IEE building regs guide pg49 and 50. How many sockets are on the fused spur on the diagram? Answer 2

This is all a bit peripheral anyway the question was about certification.

p4u1_2

Just to add my pennies worth.

I was taught, 20 years ago now, that the total number of spurs should not exceed half the number of outlets on a ring circuit. The point being, a ring circuit with lots a spurs is fast on the way to becoming a radial circuit.

Regarding spurs taken from spurs, this a big no. It's not so much a loading issue, lets face it, a double socket can draw 26A which I believe could overload 2.5mm T/E in certain circumstances. It's more a case of standardisation. Remove the face plate of a socket, 1 cable makes it a spur, 2 makes it a ring and 3 makes it a ring with spur taken from it. Now consider a spur with a spur taken from it. Two cables makes it a ring, so in theory we could take a spur from it. We could now have 3 double sockets taken from a single spur.

IMHO the purpose of the regs as are 2 fold, a) safety, b) standardisation.