Buying Flat With Damp and Dogdy Vendor - How Can I Protect Myself?

Big_Zee

Hi I am purchasing a flat and concerned about damp in the property.

The flat is a basement flat in a grade II (200 yr old) listed building.

The house was completely derelict up until 2 yrs ago when it was developed into 9 flats. The vendor has decided to sell the all the flats which were initally rented.

The two main areas of concern in the flat are:

1/. Room that was a former wine cellar - I think due to the Grade II listing this was basically left untouched. On both a homebuyers survey and a structural survey damp was noted extensively in this room and a corridor adjacent.

2/. The bedroom is completely underground and must have been tanked - it was originally the old houses coal celler.

The bank will only release the £, if they a full damp survey is done on the flat and another survey on dry rot that was noted in the communal areas.

I am very suspicious of the Vendor (a moderately large developer) - he sent over a supposed "damp survey" done by another company that was litterally 4 lines, and just said no damp was found anywhere in the flat and it was all ok. The supposed dry rot survey by the same company was exactly the same!

Obviously I don't believe this at all and neither does the valuer - and therefore the bank.

The valuer recommended that I get someone in myself to do a damp survey and he recommended "Kenwood".

At this the estate agent said the Vendor would not accept Kenwood "as they were just unrealistic with their reports".

This just rings further alarm bells with me - although they did say they would let Rentokill in.

Can you advise on another high quality Damp company that I could get in, as I am not going to accept someone they recommend as I would expect a similar stitched up report as the last.

Are Rentokill any good and could they be relied on to provide a good report?

What other steps should I be taking to protect myself? Should I be looking to get a damp proof guarentee from this damp company? - If so what sort of guarentee should I be looking to get?

Thanks for any advise you can provide me with.

Cannon_Fodder

Steps to protect yourself?

Walk away.

Running_Horse

Big_Zee wrote: »

What other steps should I be taking to protect myself?

Buy another flat. This one will be a mistake.

BitterAndTwisted

A bedroom in a basement? Are you mad? Grade II listing brings honourous responsibilities so apart from the damp and the dodgy developer, I'd run like the flaming clappers! There will always be another property, and I doubt there would be a worse one

Milliewilly

As an ex- Rentokil surveyor I would bet my last £ that their report will say the house is riddled with damp / dry rot and you need to spend £££££ then buy an annual insurance policy forever amen so this would go in your favour against the developer.

I would agree with the other posters, damp is one thing, damp in grade II listed basement is another can of worms - let it be someone elses problem.

Run away - quickly and give yourself a pat on the back for avoiding a heap of trouble and look for something else. Basements are always a nightmare.

poppysarah

Is it the only flat in a 200 mile radius? No. So find one that isn't underground and full of hobbit wee.

David_Aldred

Hi,
If you wish to go further with considering purchasing the property then may I suggest that you have an independent dampness and timber survey done to give a truly unbiased qualified opinion upon the matter. If the vendor is honest and keen to sell the flat then approach them to fund half the specialist survey cost and then both of you will be open to taking the observations, conclusions and recommendations made within that report on board.

A good specialist independent surveyor should be on site at least half a day and spend all the next day hand writing a report specific to that property with photographs, drawings etc, so you can see how this will differ considerably from what you have been offered by way of a damp / timber report from a contractor to date.

Please look on the Property Care Association (PCA) Website under find a member and select Freelance Surveyors and / or Consultants both of whom are truly independent (the rest are contractors) and pick one in your area to have a chat with over the phone to discuss the situation. With this being a basement check that they are CSSW qualified which is specific for basement investigations and that they have experience of Listed buildings.

Hope this helps, kindest regards David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

tomstickland

I'd avoid a basement flat anyway - they're too dark.

G_M

Don't waste your money on a survey. Only get one done if
a) the vendor agrees to pay for it AND
b) the vendor agrees to give you complete freedom to choose who does it.

Otherwise walk away.

In fact I'd really agree with all the other posts....walk away anyway.

PasturesNew

poppysarah wrote: »

full of hobbit wee.

Genius

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David_Aldred

Hi,
Further to my previous post the following may be of additional interest:

If the property has a history of dry rot then it is unlikely all traces of the fungus have been removed from the fabric of the building given the invasive nature of the fungus and the best that can be hoped for is that it has been adequately controlled from re-establishing itself. The key here being that conditions either do not remain favourable or become favourable at some piont in the future for continued growth of the fungus.

The primary requirement to controlling any type of decay is reducing the moisture content to a level that is below which the fungus will flourish. Any chemicals used are only as a support measure to this basic requirement and should never be used as a substitute.

The problem with regard to this issue is a developer does not have time to dry the fabric of the building down at a best that can be hoped for rate of 25mm wall thickness per calender month. It must be realised that an already damp / wet building is then being made wetter with a considerable amount of moisture introduced with wet trades such as plastering etc.

With one trade quickly following another it is obvious to see how areas that may well remain saturated / of concern are simply covered up and dry rot thrives within dark dank voids. With all the different trades on site the contractors often shrug their shoulders and think 'not my problem somebody else will sort / I'll be on another job by the time there is a problem / don't care / don't realise' as timber at risk is left embedded in damp / wet masonry and the dry rot fungus has a ready made meal to survive / grow from as it is hidden behind plastering / ducts / dry lining etc.

To compound matters the property has been split into multi occupancy and basements of which your flat is within are inherently more prone to dampness than rooms above ground level.

Whilst you may think you have an instant come back to the developer in the case of a future outbreak of dry rot this may not be as straightforward as you might think. The developer could have sub contracted any dry rot treatment out to a specialist contractor and their could be arguments between developer and sub contractor with you left for months whilst they bat it back and forth between themselves.

You might get half hearted attempts at re-treatment because they hate having to do work for free. You would also have to prove that the latest outbreak related to the historic previous outbreak and this may not be easy if you are unsure of the extent of the historic infection. In addition multi occupancy means one flat may blame another and / or refuse further controlling treatment. Trying to control a dry rot from one side only on a party wall may mean your controlling measures are ineffective so you can see how complicated this can get.

As a bare minimum you need to have on file in your hand what areas of the entire property were treated for dry rot, all reports, plans, sketches and recommendations, specifications and extent of works undertaken and who did what and most importantly who is legally responsible for what with regard to controlling it. You need in writing all their contact information in addition to any warranties given, the extent of those warranties and whether any guarantee is insurance backed in addition to what does the guarantee / insurance policy actually covers. Sometimes the guarantee / warranty is only for simple re-treatment and ignores absolutely everything else consequential such as re-plastering, making good timbers, loss to your furnishings etc, disruption etc. So you need to have all this written down and on a personal file for yourself and your legal advisors for future referance.

Then there is the issue of the basment works themselves. You need written assurance that the basement conversion was fully compliant with the entire requirements of BS8102 Protection of structures against water from the ground.

To existing basement conversions where it may be difficult to structurally waterproof from the outside then internal systems are required that generally fall into two groups of either trying to hold moisture back (tanking) or letting moisture in and then via internal linings to walls and floors directing such moisture to drains often by sump pumps with battery back up and alarms in case in failure.

To begin with you need to know what type of structural waterproofing system has been used and what guarantees are in force, whether they are insurance backed and what exactly is covered on a claim as again some guarantees are just bare minimum to re-treat and any other loss is not covered.

If the type of system used has been tanking then the fact that part of your flat was a former coal store may have significant implications because the contaminates especially sulphates from the coal that has leached into the walls / floors may cause problems with the tanking / plastering / concrete / plasters especially in the long term such that what appears nicely decorated now may well break down over time and possibly allow leakage and decay to occur.

If the type of system used has been an internal lining / cavity drainage system then you need to know who is responsible for maintaining that system, if there is an annual maintenance charge / where the pumps / alarm / pump switches are / if there is battery back up etc. Again this needs to be documented especially with multi occupancy.

The same issues that apply to the dry rot in terms of warranties / guarantee / adjoining properties restricting any repairs etc that applied to the above dry rot issues will also tend to apply to the structural waterproofing system. Remember no system is perfect and defects are bound to occur but it is being able to acess and remedy those defects that will be crucial.

From the above which is by no means exhaustive you will see that a simple four line comment from some damp-proofing contractor you have had is chronically inadequate.

I would enquire of the cost for you to obtain your own insurances for policies that specifically will cover you for all loss, temporary accomodation etc for dry / wet rot and dampness / leakage. This would require a policy tailoring specifically for such events as often their are exclusions relating to these risks with standard policies.

If it were me then my personal view would be the combination of new conversion, things being covered up / multi occupancy / history of dry rot and the issues of uncertain basement works would certainly have me very concerned indeed and if there was a choice between a property with a history of dry rot and one without I would choose the one without such a problem be that historic or otherwise every time as dry rot is probably the worst thing to have other than ongoing structural movement especially to a multi occupancy below ground development.

By the way you will probably as a duty of care have to notify the history of dry rot to any future purchaser if you bought the property and came to sell atsome point in the futrure and that history could well deter a potential buyer / reduce the value of the property especially if by that time the guarantees / warranties (if indeed there are any) had expired etc.

Hope the above helps, kindest regards David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor