Rental Inspection - right to specific time?

BitterAndTwisted

Look at this way: an inspection is also your opportunity to acquaint the letting agents and the landlord with any concerns you may have in regard to maintenance and repairs. The key words to focus on here are "mutually convenient" "reasonable" and "compromise".

LittleMissAspie

What time will you be home from your afternoon appointment? You could ask them to visit after that. If they get awkward, just tell them you are heavily pregnant and it takes you a couple of hours to get ready in the morning, then you have a health visitor (bit of a fib) so could they come after x time when the visitor will have gone.

tbs624

theartfullodger wrote: »

QT asks
Sort of: LL has a right to inspect: Tenant has an absolute right to refuse any and all visits, inspections, viewings for subsequent rentals/sale etc. etc. Except in Scotland I think.

See
Interestingly the right to inspection is only a right to check the place still habitable and complies with the law as regards the condition of the place the Landlord must supply to the tenant. See "Landlord & Tenant Act 1985" Section 8
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1985/cukpga_19850070_en_1#pb3-l1g9


So Landlord (or his agent) can reasonably inspect to confirm the place is wind & water-tight but has no legal right to complain about, say, piles of rubbish bags in the front room - or - the terrible smell of tobacco smoke. LL can separately complain about these things: Tenant may have the right to ignore those complaints.

I think I therefore disagree with tbs... Am I wrong? Is there some other act giving the LL any right to inspections beyond this??

LOL - so what exactly is it that you're disagreeing with AL? The statutory provision as quoted in my earlier post ?

If you're under an AST in E or W the law places an S11 "repairing obligation" upon the LL, and then clearly S11(6), as I quoted before, applies -LL has right to "enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair."

Not sure why you've brought in the bit about rubbish/how the tenant lives? The condition and state of repair simply means "of the property" - we did have a thread that discussed this one at length a couple of weeks ago. I made clear my view that how a T chooses to live is their own affair, except where they are causing a deterioration to the property or committing a criminal act.

As said in my earlier post above, T *can* of course refuse LL access and then LL has right to seek court order for access to be enforced , to boot T out at earliest legal opportunity and to bat off failure to repair claims if the T does so.

It's funny how those who flag up that a LL must comply with the covenant to allow a tenant quiet enjoyment fail to acknowledge the equally valid covenant to permit access to inspect that is afforded to the LL under statute.

My view is that an LL or his LA must however be reasonable , which would include not inspecting at too frequent intervals and making sure that an appointment is made for a mutually convenient time and date.

Again - negotiation.

tbs624

All QTpie needs to do is thank them for their letter , & say that she wishes to be present for all inspections and doesn't consent to the LA letting himself in by key during the tenancy. She could then say that although the proposed inspection date is fine, she is only available between eg, 2 and 3.30pm. She then continues to say that if, however, this time is not possible for them she would be happy to arrange for Monday between 11 and 12.30 or Thursday between 4 and 5pm, or whatever. Finish by asking them to confirm asap which would be best for them and ask them to add the contents of her letter to their records. Then simply "look forward to hearing from you."

Fire_Fox

tbs624 wrote: »

LOL - so what exactly is it that you're disagreeing with AL? The statutory provision as quoted in my earlier post ?

If you're under an AST in E or W the law places an S11 "repairing obligation" upon the LL, and then clearly S11(6), as I quoted before, applies -LL has right to "enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair."

Not sure why you've brought in the bit about rubbish/how the tenant lives? The condition and state of repair simply means "of the property" - we did have a thread that discussed this one at length a couple of weeks ago. I made clear my view that how a T chooses to live is their own affair, except where they are causing a deterioration to the property or committing a criminal act.

If as landlord really wanted to enter the property in order to identify essential maintenance, then it would be common sense to bring along a builder not send in an office drone.

MissMoneypenny

tbs624 wrote: »

See Landlord and Tenanct Act 1985 S11(6):

(6)In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.

Off the top of my head, wasn't that stat. law trumped by the common law, Street v Mountford 1988? Wasn't that the case that went all the way to the House of Lords and while there, the Lords also decided a tenant had exclusive access and does not have to grant access to anyone, including the landlord?

Perhaps someone else, who has a few minutes to spare, can look that one up. If not, I'll check later.

Ta.

MissMP

rozeepozee

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the tenant is saying she doesn't want to let the LL in. Just that she wants to be given a proper appointment rather than hanging about all day waiting for him to come. I think an hour's window would be reasonable?

As a LL, my inspections are about making sure things are in good order so that I can get them repaired etc if necessary. It tends to be an opportunity to review with the Tenant any problems in the property - I have to say that, on the whole, my tenants tend not to let me know about problems unless they are major and wait until the inspection comes up to mention them. It's in everyone's interest to have a well maintained property and appliances etc. That's what the tenant is paying their rent for.

I'm pregnant to so I can sympathise with your need to get some sleep and chill out without being disturbed by your LL!

franklee

I think it's high handed of the agent to give an eight hour window, your day should not be for their convenience. The agent I rent through just sends me a reminder the inspection is due and asks me to ring in to make an appointment. Usually they can accommodate my requested date and time or if not I suggest another. I usually go for around lunch time as that happens to suit us both. We agree a specific time, occasionally they may run say 10-15 mins late. I'd not allow them in without my being there.

tbs624

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Off the top of my head, wasn't that stat. law trumped by the common law, Street v Mountford 1988? Wasn't that the case that went all the way to the House of Lords and while there, the Lords also decided a tenant had exclusive access and does not have to grant access to anyone, including the landlord?

Perhaps someone else, who has a few minutes to spare, can look that one up. If not, I'll check later.

Ta.

MissMP

Street v Mountford B]1985[/B sought to define when a property was let under a license or under a tenancy ( licenses used by some LLs to avoid compliance with the Rent Acts back then )

Some interesting quotes from the report of that appeal case:

Comparing the difference between the rights as a lodger/licensee:

“..the occupier is a lodger if the LL provides attendance or services which require the LL or his servants to exercise unrestricted access to and us of the premises..”

and as a tenant:

“..any express reservation of the LL of limited rights to enter and view the state of the premises and to repair and maintain the premises only serves to emphasise the fact that the grantee is entitled to exclusive occupation and is a tenant..”

“..a tenant armed with exclusive possession can keep out strangers and keep out the LL unless the LL is exercising limited rights reserved to him by the tenancy agreement to enter and view and repair..”

Reference was made to Windeyer, J, summarising elsewhere:

“..A reservation to the LL, either by contract or statute, of a limited right of entry, as for example to view or repair, is, of course, not inconsistent with the grant of exclusive occupation. Subject to such reservations, a tenant for a term or from year to year or for a life or lives, can exclude his LL as well as strangers from the demised premises..” ( My highlighting on both above.)

“My Lords, I gratefully adopt the language and logic of Windeyer J”:

Essentially, the T has exclusive possession, i.e. the right to “control” the property and to exclude everyone else from it but it is subject to a limited rights of entry reserved to the LL.

If your interpretation of what was said is different, Miss M, I’d be interested to read your comments

tbs624

Fire_Fox wrote: »

If as landlord really wanted to enter the property in order to identify essential maintenance, then it would be common sense to bring along a builder not send in an office drone.

No, the office drone gets paid to give any repairs issue a " good dose of looking at" first and then notes it on his/her clipboard