Virgin Media chasing money from 2005 - can't supply bills

dcox78

Hi All,

Having finally sorted out (I hope) an issue I've been having with Virgin Media where they've been desperately trying to charge me for a "free" V+ box, I'm now having another problem with them.

In October/November 2005 I moved from Wellingborough to Lincoln, and asked for my services to be moved. I had an engineer booked, took a day off work, but the engineer never turned up. When I phoned NTL (they weren't VM at that point) I was told the engineer visit had been cancelled due to an outstanding balance at my old property in Wellingborough. They couldn't install until I cleared this balance, so I did this, and they then installed.

Move forward a few years to last year (2008), and I suddenly started getting letters from a debt collectors saying that they'd been trying to find me because I owe Virgin Media money from my old property. Question number 1 is why did they have so much trouble finding me when I'd told them my new address to have my account moved. Question number 2 - how do I owe them money when I had to clear my balance to get the account moved? I went through my bank statements and found a payment in November 2005, which will have been to clear my balance, gave them the authorisation code, and I was told that all was fine, they could see I'd cleared the balance, so that was that.

Couple of weeks later I get another letter from the debt collectors, called NTL again to get them to call them off, and they insisted that I did in fact still owe this money. By this time I'd lost my statement (never filed it back away after the previous time I took it out and probably got thrown away) so couldn't give them the authorisation code.

I threatened to cancel all my current services if they didn't leave me alone on this matter, and the letters then stopped, so I assumed they'd done so. I've since moved again, and haven't heard anything from them.

However, when trying to sort out the latest issues, I told the guy that in January I'll be leaving them and going to Sky. He asked why, and I listed all the issues, including the issue detailed above. I wish I hadn't now, as he looked into it and called back to say I still do owe them this money. Apparently there is £49 from the previous address, and then a further £53 from March 2006 due to a missed payment. If this was the case, why wasn't I cut off in April/May 2006? Why am I still using their services when I've got this missed payment?

I've told the guy that I can't just afford to pay out this money for something I may not actually owe. I asked him for a copy of the bills from July 2005 - November 2005, and for March 2006 - July 2006, so I can see these missed payments and match them up with my bank statements (which I can now get online). However, he says they can't go back further than 12 months with the bills.

Can they therefore push me for this money if they can't supply the bills? How do they prove that I owe this money? If this went to court, could I win on the grounds that they have no proof, but I do have proof of money going out of my bank at that time?

I'd appreciate any advice.

Heinz

Just off the top of my head I think a County Court judge would be very miffed to have you hauled up in front of him for an alleged non-payment when the claimant cannot present the unpaid bill(s) as evidence of its claim.

dcox78

Heinz wrote: »

Just off the top of my head I think a County Court judge would be very miffed to have you hauled up in front of him for an alleged non-payment when the claimant cannot present the unpaid bill(s) as evidence of its claim.

Thanks for the reply. Thats how I see it too, unfortunately they don't see it that way.

They have now emailed me itemised details of phone calls made in October/November 2005, as well as details of payments made/due on my new account at the new (well, now old) house in Lincoln. Strangely none of these payments match up with my bank statements, which show I paid out a lot more to them than they are claiming. Some of the payments they mention are not listed on my bank statement, but may have been made on my parents card (with their permission obviously ) but that suggests I've paid even more.

I've just replied to the email and basically told them that unless they can provide bills and proof that these haven't been paid, then I will be unwilling to pay these amounts. My contract expires in January and he was trying to talk me into staying after that when I mentioned I'll be moving to Sky - after the complete mess they've made of this I won't be sticking around.

spike7451

Read the T&C's. The V+ Box,like all NTL/VM equipment remains their property at ALL times,Unlike Sky,you do not own it,you're mearly hireing it.
Para E-
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/terms.html

dcox78

spike7451 wrote: »

Read the T&C's. The V+ Box,like all NTL/VM equipment remains their property at ALL times,Unlike Sky,you do not own it,you're mearly hireing it.
Para E-

Don't see how it makes a difference to be honest - they said it was a free box and free installation, but then were trying to charge me for it. I'm not arguing that I should get to keep it, I'm arguing that I shouldn't pay for it. They've agreed everytime I've spoken to them, but then add the charge on the the bill regardless.

spike7451

dcox78 wrote: »

Don't see how it makes a difference to be honest - they said it was a free box and free installation, but then were trying to charge me for it. I'm not arguing that I should get to keep it, I'm arguing that I shouldn't pay for it. They've agreed everytime I've spoken to them, but then add the charge on the the bill regardless.

It's NOT a free box,you are paying for the set up of the box,the install is seperate fee from that.You can (& I know people who have from when I worked for them) be prosecuted for theft! The cost of a new V+ box is around £300,many of those that 'go missing' turn up chipped illigally.
Anyway,why should'nt you pay for it? You had the T&C's & signed a contract.The amount of lost,stolen & chipped boxes plus the damage they cause to the network & the sheer cost of was one of the reasons for NTL's chapter 11,which resulted in part to my department being made redundent.

dcox78

spike7451 wrote: »

It's NOT a free box,you are paying for the set up of the box,the install is seperate fee from that.You can (& I know people who have from when I worked for them) be prosecuted for theft! The cost of a new V+ box is around £300,many of those that 'go missing' turn up chipped illigally.
Anyway,why should'nt you pay for it? You had the T&C's & signed a contract.The amount of lost,stolen & chipped boxes plus the damage they cause to the network & the sheer cost of was one of the reasons for NTL's chapter 11,which resulted in part to my department being made redundent.

My other thread under "Digital TV" explains this better, the issue in this thread has moved on from that to another issue.

To summarise, the box was free due to loads of problems I'd been experiencing with my standard box. I asked them for a free V+ box, they initially refused and sent out a new standard box, which within hours crashed. I gave them 2 options - cancel all my services or send me a free v+ box, I told them I didn't want any extra costs as it was in place of their faulty standard boxes, so must include free box and installation. They agreed to this. They still agree that it is free, but mistakes made by several of their staff have meant I kept getting billed for it.

spike7451

dcox78 wrote: »

My other thread under "Digital TV" explains this better, the issue in this thread has moved on from that to another issue.

To summarise, the box was free due to loads of problems I'd been experiencing with my standard box. I asked them for a free V+ box, they initially refused and sent out a new standard box, which within hours crashed. I gave them 2 options - cancel all my services or send me a free v+ box, I told them I didn't want any extra costs as it was in place of their faulty standard boxes, so must include free box and installation. They agreed to this. They still agree that it is free, but mistakes made by several of their staff have meant I kept getting billed for it.

I give up! I worked for NTL/VM for over 10 years so I know for a fact you do not own the box!!!!The box belongs to VM,not you,never will.

dcox78

spike7451 wrote: »

I give up! I worked for NTL/VM for over 10 years so I know for a fact you do not own the box!!!!The box belongs to VM,not you,never will.

At what point did I say I own the box? I said in my previous message that I'm not talking about keeping the box, I know it's not MY box, but usually you have to pay for RENTING it from them, I did not want to do this because it was replacing the standard box that kept breaking.

Get it now?

dcox78

P.S. When I say don't want to pay for renting it, I mean the £49+ for the box itself, and installation. They actually told me they wanted £100 at one point, which included the box AND installation. I'm happy to continue paying the monthly subscription charge. Just in case you get a bit confused.

olly300

dcox78 wrote: »

Can they therefore push me for this money if they can't supply the bills? How do they prove that I owe this money? If this went to court, could I win on the grounds that they have no proof, but I do have proof of money going out of my bank at that time?

I'd appreciate any advice.

They are unlikely to use a court they are more likely to use debt collectors to harass you, and then add something to your credit file.

As already stated with any digital TV service the company maintains ownership of the box you just pay for the installation.

1. Write to them using recorded delivery asking for them to post you a copy of the bills within 28 days where you owe them the money. If you have any of their equipment even if it's faulty, add that they are welcome to come and collect it, and they should contact you for a mutually convenient time. State this is the telephone number they can contact you to arrange the pick up of equipment only and this has an answering service so they can leave a message if you don't answer. (Give them a day time telephone number where they can contact you with an answering service)
At the end tell them if they do not send the bills you requested by post or do not contact you to arrange collection of the equipment you will take the matter further.

2. After 28 days if the bills don't turn up and they haven't phoned you and either contacted you or left a message to pick up the equipment, write another letter again sent by recorded delivery asking them to stop harassing and threatening you as you have given them ample time to sort the issues out and they clearly no intention of sorting out the issues raised otherwise you will take them to court for breach of contract. Add if they attempt to add anything detrimental to your credit file you will take them to court for damages.

3. After 8 weeks from your first letter (which is why I said send it recorded delivery to prove the date you sent it) if they don't say the issue is closed or they refuse to contact you properly to pick up the equipment make a complaint to CISAS http://www.cisas.org.uk/