What is "living together as husband and wife" ??

Jomo

MissAdventure wrote: »

We don't sleep together in the same bed. We have seperate rooms. I share some (but by no means all) food/cooking/shopping with all of my housemates, I did before he was my boyfriend, and do so the same amount now.



I find it pretty nice, and luckily it doesn't have to appeal to you

We haven't been going out that long, and if we hadn't happened to already live in the same building theres no way I'd be considering moving into a place together at this early stage of a relationship. The fact that we live together did make me nervous about entering a relationship, but it seemed worth the risk.

All our possesions are seperate. I'm used to having my own space, and so is he, and if our relationship did end its going to be akward enough meeting each other in the kitchen without having to seperate all our things. Why should we rush into things just because we have the same roof over our head? I've said before, if I wanted a married lifestyle, I'd marry.

I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, but several people here just don't seem to understand what a shared house is like (I've lived in several, because you end up paying half the rent you would for a place of your own, so its very frugal). It's not like living together as a family. Sure I share a kitchen, but I have my own seperate cupboards. We share perishables like bread (for example) because having 5 seperate loaves of bread on the counter would be silly, but we each have our own cereals in our own cupboards. I have my own shelf on the fridge. I share one of the bathrooms, because there aren't enough in the house for us to have one each, and we don't share toiletries (I keep most of mine in my room because theres not much space). Everyone does their own washing. I have my own room, and while there is no lock on the door, people wouldn't come in here when I'm not in, or try to come in without knocking, and I would treat their rooms in the same way.

You don't have to marry to live like a married couple...many don't!

You are best seeking advice from the right authorities, if somebody believes you to be defrauding the system they will dob you in and then you'll have to prove your situation in a more stressful situation. Better to have the all clear than not!

Oldernotwiser

MissAdventure wrote: »

I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, but several people here just don't seem to understand what a shared house is like (I've lived in several, because you end up paying half the rent you would for a place of your own, so its very frugal). It's not like living together as a family. Sure I share a kitchen, but I have my own seperate cupboards. We share perishables like bread (for example) because having 5 seperate loaves of bread on the counter would be silly, but we each have our own cereals in our own cupboards. I have my own shelf on the fridge. I share one of the bathrooms, because there aren't enough in the house for us to have one each, and we don't share toiletries (I keep most of mine in my room because theres not much space). Everyone does their own washing. I have my own room, and while there is no lock on the door, people wouldn't come in here when I'm not in, or try to come in without knocking, and I would treat their rooms in the same way.

You'd probably be surprised by the amount of experience of shared housing there is on here; when I was in my twenties nobody ever dreamed of renting a place on their own unless living with someone and I was sharing houses until I was over 30!

You may not have heard the expression "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs" but this is what you're trying to do!

MissAdventure

Vader123 wrote: »

You can justify it to yourself as you want.

I'm not trying to 'justify' anything, just explaining how I live as you seem to have made assumptions (about where I sleep! etc.).

Vader123 wrote: »

You live with your partner. How the arrangements with other people in the place work is irrelavant.

I, personally, wouldn't call my boyfriend my 'partner'. You have called him that. I don't know if the benefits office would consider him that or not. I was explaining that I live with my boyfriend in the same way as I lived with him when he wasn't my boyfriend. You may think the living arrangements are irrelevant, but they clearly don't, or they wouldn't need to interview me about them.

Vader123 wrote: »

There has to be a line and a test, if yours was the case every couple would say they were lodgers.

I get that they have to draw a line. I am just not as clear as you seem to be that there is this solid line of what constitues a partner.

If the benefits office mean 'any kind of dating or relationship, including boyfriend/girlfriend' why don't they just say so, rather than saying 'someone you live with as if husband and wife', and why would there need to be this comlicated interview of *how* you live together?

As I've already said, I'm talking to the benefits people next week, so hopefully I'll find out from them what they mean.

MissAdventure

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You'd probably be surprised by the amount of experience of shared housing there is on here; when I was in my twenties nobody ever dreamed of renting a place on their own unless living with someone and I was sharing houses until I was over 30!

You may not have heard the expression "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs" but this is what you're trying to do!

I said "several people", not all of you ! And I've certainly heard of the expression, and I apologise if I was doing so.

To be honest, I was suprised that some people were responding in that way, or describing their only houseshare experience as students. I didn't think it was particularly unusual.

That said, I remember when a previous group of my freinds went into a letting agent to find a house for 5 to share. She started showing us very grotty cheap student places, and we explained we were all employed in decent jobs and had a bit more money to spend on somethng a bit nicer than that. She was so confused 'But don't you want to all get your own places like everyone else?!' Why I'd want to pay twice as much for the priveledge of living in a tiny flat with no garden and having to travel to chat to my freinds I don't know!

Oh, and incidentally, I'm 29 so I fully expect to be house sharing at 'over 30'

qwertyuiop12345

MissAdventure wrote: »

We don't sleep together in the same bed. We have seperate rooms. I share some (but by no means all) food/cooking/shopping with all of my housemates, I did before he was my boyfriend, and do so the same amount now.

MissAdventure wrote: »

All our possesions are seperate. I'm used to having my own space, and so is he.

MissAdventure wrote: »

Sure I share a kitchen, but I have my own seperate cupboards. We share perishables like bread (for example) because having 5 seperate loaves of bread on the counter would be silly, but we each have our own cereals in our own cupboards. I have my own shelf on the fridge. I share one of the bathrooms, because there aren't enough in the house for us to have one each, and we don't share toiletries (I keep most of mine in my room because theres not much space). Everyone does their own washing. I have my own room, and while there is no lock on the door, people wouldn't come in here when I'm not in, or try to come in without knocking, and I would treat their rooms in the same way.

Several years ago I claimed JSA for about 2 months whilst living in a similar situation to you.

I had an interview where someone from the Jobcentre came to my flat to make a decision on this matter. They concluded that I was not living with anyone in the sense of the legislation and my claim went ahead.

The questions at the interview where on very similar things to those you have mentioned and my answers were much the same as yours.

laulau1

Hi if i were assesing your claim, i probably wouldnt refer it for a visit for living together. I wouldnt normally in a shared student household where rent is paid seperatley and you have seperate rooms. Otherwise we would have to consider possible LT for every member of the house share.

Kimitatsu

MissAdventure wrote: »

We don't sleep together in the same bed. We have seperate rooms. I share some (but by no means all) food/cooking/shopping with all of my housemates, I did before he was my boyfriend, and do so the same amount now.



I find it pretty nice, and luckily it doesn't have to appeal to you

We haven't been going out that long, and if we hadn't happened to already live in the same building theres no way I'd be considering moving into a place together at this early stage of a relationship. The fact that we live together did make me nervous about entering a relationship, but it seemed worth the risk.

All our possesions are seperate. I'm used to having my own space, and so is he, and if our relationship did end its going to be akward enough meeting each other in the kitchen without having to seperate all our things. Why should we rush into things just because we have the same roof over our head? I've said before, if I wanted a married lifestyle, I'd marry.

I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, but several people here just don't seem to understand what a shared house is like (I've lived in several, because you end up paying half the rent you would for a place of your own, so its very frugal). It's not like living together as a family. Sure I share a kitchen, but I have my own seperate cupboards. We share perishables like bread (for example) because having 5 seperate loaves of bread on the counter would be silly, but we each have our own cereals in our own cupboards. I have my own shelf on the fridge. I share one of the bathrooms, because there aren't enough in the house for us to have one each, and we don't share toiletries (I keep most of mine in my room because theres not much space). Everyone does their own washing. I have my own room, and while there is no lock on the door, people wouldn't come in here when I'm not in, or try to come in without knocking, and I would treat their rooms in the same way.

From these replies then I would not deem you to be living together as husband and wife and you could argue that fairly well I think. Because of the housing market today there are many couples who have seperated and live just as you do (but obviously without the sleeping together bit!) because they cannot afford to move out.

If I was you, in order to protect myself I would speak to the DWP about it so that it is recorded - that way if someone tries to report you fro benefit fraud in the future you have been up front about it all. In many ways it would be better for you if they DID do a home visit because that way you have pre empted any questions.

dreamylittledream

This is the law of unintended consequences in full flight really.

LTAHW rules were introduced to prevent financially co-dependant people claiming income based benefits as single people - they were not designed to catch out people who have recently started sleeping together and happen to live in a house share.

From the situation outlined by the OP it would be a fairly large leap for a DM to consider them to be LTAHW - there has been no material change in the OP's ciucumstances from previously other then she now shares another housemates bed on occasion - they still have their own room, pay their own rent etc etc.

You probably need to declare this and let a DM make a decision to protect yourself (and be prepared for the fact that some people really do think like vader) but you could console yourself with the thought that this was not really intention of the legislation when it was drawn up and to be honest morally I'd argue you have every right to claim what you currently are doing.

A recent sexual relationship with another party in a house share doesn't create a LTAHW situation overnight - I'd want to seem some concrete evidence of financial co-dependance myself before ruling in that fashion - to suggest otherwise is ridiculous really...

property.advert

There have been cases where married couple have separated but remained under the same roof and been classed as single after an investigation.

Now they cannot say you must never stay at your boyfriend's house overnight but if you were to spend 4 or more nights there, then you would be over 50% which might tip the balance.

I would not worry about things in a house share but I would not move everything into one room.

System

property.advert wrote: »

There have been cases where married couple have separated but remained under the same roof and been classed as single after an investigation.

Now they cannot say you must never stay at your boyfriend's house overnight but if you were to spend 4 or more nights there, then you would be over 50% which might tip the balance.

I would not worry about things in a house share but I would not move everything into one room.

There is no set amount of nights you can stay over, its a common misconception.