What is "living together as husband and wife" ??

MissAdventure

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You live with a boy/girlfriend, you share with a friend.

Hm, well from my point of view no magical transformation of my living circumstances happened when we first kissed (or since then, to be honest).

Anyway, I think there is at least enough doubt that I have to declare the situation next time I go to sign on and see what the benefits office think, and move if nescesary. I've got a job interview for next week, so hopefully (fingers crossed, touch wood etc) if I get it and I can leave all this silliness behind!!

Vader123

Hm, well from my point of view no magical transformation of my living circumstances happened when we first kissed (or since then, to be honest).

Really?

So you don't sleep together in the same bed?
Don't share food?
Cook a meal together?
Go shopping together?

Sounds like a cracking relationship!

Vader

potnoodleprincess

I guess if they support you financially then they are considered a partner but if you just happen to share the same address then no it shouldnt matter, what if you broke up tomorrow you wouldnt be any worse off financially as you didnt share the finances as a couple anyway just as any of the other people who live in the house

System

Vader123 wrote: »

Really?

So you don't sleep together in the same bed?
Don't share food?
Cook a meal together?
Go shopping together?

Sounds like a cracking relationship!

Vader

Thing is all but 3 of those could easily be applied to a friendship (maybe the sleeping together bit if you were that way inclined). I know a lot of people who do that. Its easier.

And there are exceptions:

People living in one dwelling are not necessarily living together in the same
household. Examples are
• lodgers or students who necessarily share a single gas/electricity supply etc.
and may have an arrangement to share costs for items such as food and
cleaning materials

So bu this rule a bf and gf could live in the same house if it was sharing in a student setting because

11015 Two people who are neither married to each other nor a civil partner of each other
must be members of the same household if they are to be treated as LTAHAW or
LTACP and thus a couple.

It really needs to be clearer though by understanding is each case is judged independently. Back in the day mand and woman lived together only after marriage. Now its not uncommon for people to share with friends and bf/gfs even if they havent been together long.


I was with an ex in my 2nd year of uni and he moved in with us, along with 2 of his mates and 2 of mine.It was convenience. I supported myself, i paid my own rent etc (and we split up that year anyway).

Now one bit of legislation i think read on DWP's criteria of LTAHAW is that the relationship has to have the same future goals of a married couple i.e the relationship needs to have a future:

11044 To be treated as LTAHAW or LTACP the relationship has to be the same as that of
a married couple. Marriage is where two people join together with the intention of
sharing the rest of their lives.

So if you don't have the intention of sharing the rest if your lives together it could be argued that the relationship isn't the same as a married couple

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/ch11-23254.pdf

Oldernotwiser

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

So if you don't have the intention of sharing the rest if your lives together it could be argued that the relationship isn't the same as a married couple



I would love to be a fly on the wall when you have that conversation with the DWP!

Kimitatsu

Please bear in mind though that what may be a point of law and not percieved as fraud CAN be taken as fraud by the DWP.

I had a case which went to court (not mine a clients I hasten to add!) where the court ruled they had not broken the law and committed fraud, they were living together in the same house but not as husband and wife (despite the fact they conceived a child in that time :rolleyes:) and so the court found them not guilty.

However in the eyes of the DWP they WERE living together as husband and wife and so they took action to recover the overpayment of benefits. They escaped a criminal record but not paying back the benefits.

Its never black and white, and certainly not as simple as having no plans to spend the rest of your life together. Crikey if that was the case there are days when I could easily bury Mr K at the bottom of the garden but I dont trot off to the DWP to claim as a single parent :rotfl::rotfl:

System

Well yes, its not black and white, that's why they have to assess each claim individually. I was only taking that from the guidence the DWP have to go on when asessing people.

On a personal not to me if it was just me and a bf living together then that would fit my definition of LTAHAW, because if i was married i sure as hell wouldn't be sharing a house with friends. But at the end of the day its for the DWP to decide.

Jomo

I would have thought that you'd have to prove that you do not cook for each other or share food bills, save on utilities (sleeping in one room and saving on the electricity?), even things like sharing baths/showers might come into it? Sharing toothpaste, shower gel...as petty as this sounds if you could prove that you did not do any of this it might go in your favour?

It is easy to have high hopes in any relationship, you think you will marry that man etc etc, truth is, a month, year down the line it could all be over and in love with another...and regardless of whether you are already 'living together' or not, once you are in a relationship, the dynamics change.

MissAdventure

Vader123 wrote: »

So you don't sleep together in the same bed?
Don't share food?
Cook a meal together?
Go shopping together?

We don't sleep together in the same bed. We have seperate rooms. I share some (but by no means all) food/cooking/shopping with all of my housemates, I did before he was my boyfriend, and do so the same amount now.

Vader123 wrote: »

Sounds like a cracking relationship!

I find it pretty nice, and luckily it doesn't have to appeal to you

We haven't been going out that long, and if we hadn't happened to already live in the same building theres no way I'd be considering moving into a place together at this early stage of a relationship. The fact that we live together did make me nervous about entering a relationship, but it seemed worth the risk.

All our possesions are seperate. I'm used to having my own space, and so is he, and if our relationship did end its going to be akward enough meeting each other in the kitchen without having to seperate all our things. Why should we rush into things just because we have the same roof over our head? I've said before, if I wanted a married lifestyle, I'd marry.

I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, but several people here just don't seem to understand what a shared house is like (I've lived in several, because you end up paying half the rent you would for a place of your own, so its very frugal). It's not like living together as a family. Sure I share a kitchen, but I have my own seperate cupboards. We share perishables like bread (for example) because having 5 seperate loaves of bread on the counter would be silly, but we each have our own cereals in our own cupboards. I have my own shelf on the fridge. I share one of the bathrooms, because there aren't enough in the house for us to have one each, and we don't share toiletries (I keep most of mine in my room because theres not much space). Everyone does their own washing. I have my own room, and while there is no lock on the door, people wouldn't come in here when I'm not in, or try to come in without knocking, and I would treat their rooms in the same way.

Vader123

You can justify it to yourself as you want.

You live with your partner. How the arrangements with other people in the place work is irrelavant.

There has to be a line and a test, if yours was the case every couple would say they were lodgers.

but several people here just don't seem to understand what a shared house is like

I lived in one for 4 years a student, and for 3 after.

We never shared anything, we did have 5 loaves of bread.

Stuff got nicked, never shared.

Vader