Do HMRC take full and final offers ?

owhatamess

Hi all ,
My IVA is about to fail, just wondering if any one on here knows if HMRC will accept offer (from third party) of payment in full and final settlement.

HMRC being by far the majority creditor.
Thank you in advance for any advice out there :beer:

fermi

They don't normally accept F&Fs as far as I know.

Charco_2

I would still definitely offer!

Like any creditor, they will have to look at the case on it's own merits and in a way that maximises the return for their bosses (ie the public). They would have no "angle" or axe to grind!

fermi

You can try, but HMRC don't generally accept F&Fs.

http://www.taxaid.org.uk/uploadedfiles/document/1_311_TAXAID_-_TAX_DEBT_October_2008.pdf

Lump sums

DMB is most unlikely to accept a lump sum of less
than the tax due in full settlement. But an offer of
a lump sum may help to persuade DMB to accept
the rest of the tax over a period of time.

Charco wrote: »

Like any creditor, they will have to look at the case on it's own merits and in a way that maximises the return for their bosses (ie the public). They would have no "angle" or axe to grind!

As we know, HMRC will make you BR on a point of principle just to close their files; even when it is clear that it will cost them a fortune to do and will get nothing back.

Charco_2

fermi wrote: »

You can try, but HMRC don't generally accept F&Fs.

http://www.taxaid.org.uk/uploadedfiles/document/1_311_TAXAID_-_TAX_DEBT_October_2008.pdf

As we know, HMRC will make you BR on a point of principle just to close their files; even when it is clear that it will cost them a fortune to do and will get nothing back. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sorry Mr, are you laughing at me/my post?

The link you've posted isn't about IVAs or Insolvency, it's about negotiating with Debt Management and Banking who seem to be a debt collection wing of tax. The OP is already in an IVA and want to know if he should propose a lump sum payment to end his IVA instead of letting it fail.

We have found the Revenue to be actually very fair and reasonable to deal with regarding Insolvency and we have closed numerous cases early as a F&F.

There are two things to note.
1. Have you maintained your stautory obligations as they occured AFTER your IVA had been set-up?
2. The HMRC do have a bee in their bonnet about variations in IVAs "where the change in circumstance should have been foreseen when the original IVA was drafted" (ie failure to meet over-ambitious targets is not an acceptable reason to vary the proposal or draft a proposal that will later fail HOWEVER, "a GLOBAL RECESSION hit your business" would be a different matter)

OHWHWATAMESS: Propose the Lump Sum, it will be evaluated on it's merits

fermi

I was laughing at the foolish attitude of HMRC to be honest.

Charco_2

Then my apologies!

rog2

Charco wrote: »

We have found the Revenue to be actually very fair and reasonable to deal with regarding Insolvency and we have closed numerous cases early as a F&F.

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, charco, I, for one, certainly did not find HMRC to be either fair or reasonable in the matter of my insolvency.

I had been trying to negotiate with them over a period of two years, regarding an 'assessment' of what was, originally around £24k, even though I had not earned that amount, in total, in the year in question.

The 'help' that HMRC 'gave' me, consisted of a totally disinterested woman 'reciting' the self assessment brochure, before passing me on to a 'representative' of their collections team. This particular person proceeded to list all of the more unsavoury 'tools' that HMRC had at their disposal - including prison. In order to further convince me, as if I needed it, of their 'powers' he brought one of their internal 'bailiffs' into the interview room. This 'bailiff' was the epitome of everybody's worst 'Freddy Krueger' nightmare - shaven headed, tattooed, body piercings and more than his fair share of 'attitude', which he proceeded to demonstrate in no uncertain terms.
After the 'bailiff' left the room, the 'collections' representative, who until now had been quite civil, started to shout at me telling me that I must pay the assessment, plus penalties and interest, within 14 days, or he would unleash the full might of HMRC against me.
This 'meeting', I hasten to add, was as a result of my request, to HMRC, for an interview to try and resolve the situation amicably.
I was, as I had tried to explain, totally unable to meet their demands. They were unwilling to negotiate any settlement - whether full and final, or partial until the account 'dispute' had been rectified.
The results were, almost inevitably, that HMRC served me with a Statutory Demand - I was declared Bankrupt in the High Court for a 'debt' which I never owed, and which, in spite of my requests, HMRC would not tell me how that figure was arrived at.
When I was served with the SD, I did discuss the alternatives, including an IVA, with the CAB, and with a local tax accountant. It was their experience that HMRC, as my major creditor, would be most unlikely to agree to an IVA and that my other creditors would be insufficient, in percentage terms, to 'force' HMRC into acceptance. I resisted the 'temptation' of going to an 'IVA Factory' having just started to hear the horror stories of others who had gone down that route.
In the meantime, with interest and daily penalties, my 'debt' to HMRC had soared to over £80k, and the pressure from HMRC was 'relentless'.
Whilst I did lose a lot, as a result, Bankruptcy came as a blessed relief from the totally uncaring 'thugs' that I had to try and deal with at HMRC.
From their point of view my bankruptcy merely gave them, as fermi say, 'closure'. I expect that my 'file' was neatly tied up with pink tape and 'buried' in the archive - my name would soon have been forgotten as the Civil? Servant who dealt with my case, moved on to yet another soft target in his/her quest to keep the 'statistics' up whilst allowing the 'corporate professionals' to fleece the Revenue of billions.

I apologise if this appears to be a 'rant', and my views on the HMRC are personal. Whilst they may contradict (in fact they most definitely do) what you are saying, my experiences have been echoed by others and have been highlighted by several recent TV investigations into HMRC's handling of Insolvency and their attitude towards it.

I am not going to change my opinion of HMRC - I just hope that one day, hopefully before they are counting their index-linked, inflation proof, pensions, that just some of the individuals that I was unfortunate enough to have to deal with, find themselves in a similar position to that which they put me in.