CO alarm activation=ring fire brigade..?

Biggles

lemontart wrote: »

I agree we are getting dizzy

But that's not the CO, it's the hot air.
;-)

C_Mababejive

lemontart wrote: »

I agree we are getting dizzy - the op has all the advice that is given and details on what happens so nothing more to be said. All we can do is advise and inform,

My apologies....the original question was couched in such a way as to elicit general views as i am aware of current procedure and i am not questioning the professionalism of either those who operate the Gas emergency service or the fire brigade.

I am glad that we have now had some input from the FB.

The villains of this piece are the HSE and OFGEM.

They both refuse to come to a common agreement as to the best way to deal with reports of CO and/or alarms.

The reason?

OFGEM would then have to make operating budget allowances so that Gas network operators could train and equip their engineers with certificated atmospheric sensing apparatus.

So what we have instead is a classic fudge in which the FB and Gas men /wimmin are caught in the middle ,charged with providing a response and yet not fully equippied to enter a premises and say with full authority,backed up by instrumentation,that when they enter and more importantly when they leave,there is no CO detected in the atmosphere.

That is what the public rightly expects but it isnt what they get.

In essence,becuase of penny pinching and politics,the public are being sold short.

FB also quite rightly expect that gasman will be suitably equipped..but he isnt.

There are a number of CO campaign pressure groups who have driven hard to correct this dangerous anomaly but with no result.

OFGEMs view? set up a working group to look at it..

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/GasDistr/GDPCR7-13/Documents1/Carbon%20Monoxide%20Working%20Group%201st%20meeting%20(24-04-08).pdf

C_Mababejive

Steve2008 wrote: »

Hi all.

Just to clarify a couple of things. As a Firefighter, we would of course attend incidents involving CO alarms and would do a few of the things already mentioned.

We would advise (control operator) ventilating the room if possible and evacuating the property.

On our arrival we would enter and ventilate the property and isolate the gas supply at the meter. We would call Gas emergency service. We don't carry CO detection equipment on front line appliances.

We would check for signs and symptoms of CO poisoning and we do carry O2 equipment.

I'm not suggesting every able bodied, sound of mind person rings 999 at the first sound of a CO alarm, use common sense and do as other posters suggest. But elderly or housebound customers should of course do so without hesitation.

Hope this helps.

Would you enter the premises in BA or not ? Is there a policy or would it be up to the officer in charge at the scene?

Again,it would be ideal if FB and Gas emergency policy were in agreement.

Fire_Fox

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I would suggest that if a member of the public rings gas emergency to report a CO alarm,they expect a person to show up who can

a) confirm that the alarm is knackered/non functioning
b) that there is/is not CO in the atmosphere within their home.

At present we have a situation where (a) is possible but (b) isnt.

That means that the public's expectations are not being met.

My apologies....the original question was couched in such a way as to elicit general views as i am aware of current procedure and i am not questioning the professionalism of either those who operate the Gas emergency service or the fire brigade.

The villains of this piece are the HSE and OFGEM.

So what we have instead is a classic fudge in which the FB and Gas men /wimmin are caught in the middle ,charged with providing a response and yet not fully equippied to enter a premises and say with full authority,backed up by instrumentation,that when they enter and more importantly when they leave,there is no CO detected in the atmosphere.

That is what the public rightly expects but it isnt what they get.

In essence,becuase of penny pinching and politics, the public are being sold short.

FB also quite rightly expect that gasman will be suitably equipped..but he isnt.

There are a number of CO campaign pressure groups who have driven hard to correct this dangerous anomaly but with no result.

So in other words you had a hidden agenda all along. :rolleyes: How do you know what the general public expect, have you carried out a research study? If that is what this thread is intended to be, you couldn't have been more unscientific if you had tried.

You seem to be the only member of the public posting on this thread who thinks there are any 'villains of the piece', and the only one whose expectations are not being met. If you have time on your hands to devote to pressure groups may I suggest you contact Make Poverty History or Amnesty International?

C_Mababejive

I expect that if i were a member of the public and my CO alarm activated,that i would be fearful for the welfare of myself and my family.

Gas network operators have assumed the responsibility of responding to CO alarms (whether they have a legal obligation or not) and so the public rings them as they are the only ones who will attend immediately (apart from FB) . I believe that public have an expectation that the attending engineer can say
a) whether the alarm is operating correctly or not
b) whether there is or isnt CO in the atmosphere
c)whether there are any suspect appliances
d) If CO is detected,identify the source and stop it (be it a gas burning appliance or other source)

I think those are reasonable expectations which most people would have.

Some of those campaign groups have come into existence as a direct result of death or injury due to CO

http://www.co-gassafety.co.uk/outrage.html

Is it so wrong to campaign for greater safety?

Fire_Fox

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I expect that if i were a member of the public and my CO alarm activated,that i would be fearful for the welfare of myself and my family.

Gas network operators have assumed the responsibility of responding to CO alarms (whether they have a legal obligation or not) and so the public rings them as they are the only ones who will attend immediately (apart from FB) . I believe that public have an expectation that the attending engineer can say
a) whether the alarm is operating correctly or not
b) whether there is or isnt CO in the atmosphere
c)whether there are any suspect appliances
d) If CO is detected,identify the source and stop it (be it a gas burning appliance or other source)

I think those are reasonable expectations which most people would have.

Fear is a primal instinct and is often based more on perception of risk than actual risk. Fear alone is certainly not a reason to waste hundreds of thousands of pounds on equipment, rather you may have identified an opportunity for the powers-that-be to re-educate the general public.

I would still be interested in your explanation as to why you think or believe the general public have similar expectations to you, has your pressure group commissioned an unbiased research study? Approximately how many people die in the UK each year after the gas engineer attending an alarm situation fails to detect a threat?

C_Mababejive

I am not a member of a "pressure group" nor any other kind of campaign group.

Indeed,why bother about CO alarms at all? Arent they just something else to worry about?
But if we are to have them,are people are to worry about them,then let us have a fit and proper response.

May i refer you specifically to page 71 of this report by the HSE?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/change.pdf

In 2000 HSE proposed a fundamental review of gas sasfety. It is now 2009 and many of the findings of that review have not been implemented.

In particular..page 71,the question of the useage of flue gas analysers and whether they should be mandatory for Emergency service providers..

Within the industry,over half stated that ESPs should carry FGA equipment and in the public questionnaire 329 wanted ESPs to have FGA equipment and only 8 against.

lemontart

what is your agenda? op the public at large is better educated about such matters than you appear to give credit for with the sense to dial the number that appears on all co monitors - that number being the national gas emergency number who when such event is reported to is legally bound to attend to make safe - which is their function to make safe - then it is the occupiers responsibility or that of the landlord in rented accommodation to arrange for a suitably com pendant person such as a registered gas safe engineer to attend and repair or replace. https://www.gassaferegister,co.uk , The gas emergency service engineers work for the gas networks who are responsible for the pipework to the meter and will repair meters if the appropiate licencse/contract is in place with the registered gas supplier who has responsibity for the meter and anything after the meter is that of the occupier/landlord.

Maybe in the days of old where we just had british gas who did everything it would be have been possible to have the emergency engineer to come out make safe and repair and do everything - but with current legislation, the current makeup of the gas industry and hse rules let alone anything as vulgar as money it is not the case nor is it possible.

The fb will come put the fire out and make safe just as the ambuance will pick you up and stablelise and gas emergency will make safe then you move on to other suitably qualified people who have trained in the releavant area to deal with your needs.


So again I ask what is your agenda

C_Mababejive

There is no agenda save for public safety and the pure argument that without proper certified and calibrated atmospheric analysis equipment,it is impossible to say whether CO is present or not.

lemontart

C_Mababejive wrote: »

There is no agenda save for public safety and the pure argument that without proper certified and calibrated atmospheric analysis equipment,it is impossible to say whether CO is present or not.

that is why you would contact the gas safe engineer who is qualified in dealing with such as you WILL be left in a safe condition by the emergency services and will not be at risk from it as they will isolate the suspect appliance or the whole gas supply to the property if deemed appropiate by the attending emergency engineer,

Bottom line you will be make safe, you will not be left in danger as that is what the gas emergency service is for. no argument just fact and reality of what happens in such events as explained by several here,